hopkins vs. toney

No the ONE THING Toney does better in terms of footwork is execute his particular style, which is an absolute gaping hole in terms of technical proffieciency. There's no way to proceed here but to repeat myself. You've already had this iexplaned to you.

It's pretty laughable that you would claim Toney's footwork is "complete" and inspite of being asked to explian the remark three times offer no defence.

Yes, undoubtedly Toney does use skills Walcott doesn't. Also, Walcott will use skills that Toney doesn't. If you are interested in enough shades of grey, Audley Harrison will use skills that Muhammad Ali didn't. So what? Toney is far, far more limited in terms of footwork than Walcott is. You know this but continue to deny it because you've painted yourself into a corner.

For the fourth time, i'm not ignoring all other aspects of boxing for any reason other than my original claim was related specifically to footwork, and as we're discussing my original claim it seems natural that we should be discussing my orginal claim.

For the second time, produce an example.

For the FIFTH time, we're discussing the my original point.

"Throws it better"??

How do you mean? From a technical perspective? More perfectly? How can this be? Hopkins throws the straight right hand with perfect balance and weight-transfer and even when he is out of position he throws it with excellent form.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J871p5yO3UY[/ame]

At 1.26 of this video Hopkins throws an perfect right hand from almost all technical perspectives inspite of being slightly out of position. In spite of his not being a known banger he succeeds in dropping Calzaghe - this is near perfect technique. Enlighten me as to how Toney "throws it better"?

Speed is not a skill it is a physical talent. Define "sharper"?

Of course he can. He slides into a duck before he throws the above punch. That is without even looking.

Saying Hopkins is a better "Ring General" is the height of lazy and inadaquete analysis and works in exactly the same way as your thinking that Toney has great footwork because he's mastered one facet of that game. It helps explain how you can legitimately think that Toney has "great", "complete" footwork though, even if you won't explain it.

 

You can write all the words you like. Toney's footwork is extremely limited and it's all right there on film. I have the career set, same as you do. There's no disputing this.

No question.

**** fair. You're claiming that Toney is more skilled than Hopkins. The weakness of his footwork is the reason he unquestionably is not.

I think if you're willing to make accusations about my conduct on the forum you should be willing to put a little work in to back them up. For my own part I'd say I get inolved with member posts in great detail.

I'd say that Hopkins is as good at timing a fighter as anyone i've ever seen. I think his recognition of when and how his opponent is going to close the gap is the #2 strength in his generalship, which is exceptional. I'd say that Toney does a different job and one that is most certainly easier given that he is a near pure counter-puncher with a specific style. Hopkins' timing is better IMO, and I can't see how you can make this claim with any kind of certainty.

I also totally disagree that he hides it better. Certainly against Calzaghe Hopkins showed an absolutley exceptional sneak right hand. It's also the punch he used to dominate Tarver. Basically, it's absolutley exceptional. I don't consider Toney's sneak right hand in the same class, I certainly don't see how anyone can claim that it's so clearly better. I'd certainly want to see a detailed footage breakdown supporting any case before I would take it seriously.

Steps in with it better? That is pure falicy. That's just noise. It is absolutley not true in any way. Hopkins uses the right hand to close the distance possibly better than any fighter in history. Are you serious? If you are going to re-think one of these three, re-think this one. Some examples:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QrIraV93Pk&feature=PlayList&p=593251CA766653CE&index=2[/ame]

38 seconds (versus Roy Jones, no less)
46 seconds (KO)
1.08
1.23 (verus a smaller, quicker fighter)

But there are dozens and dozens of examples. There are very, very few fighters who have a better right hand lead than Hopkins and certainly Toney isn't one of them. Claiming he steps in better with this particular punch is just nonsense. It is not supported by film in any way.

There's nothing here that you can toss out without a second thought, it's fair enough in it's way, but you also have to draw the line somewhere. Speed is in the realm of the physical, it shouldn't be defined as a skill.

As a definition it's okay, but I think as we've already seen Hopkins has better right hand technique than Toney. I also think it's one of the few punches where Hopkins DOES have more explosive speed than Toney across the board. Toney may throw the occasional punch that is just as special.

Of what? Hopkins generalship? Would the forum support it?

 

I haven't said bad at any point. Just limited.

 

Horrible is exactly the word I would use, especially when comparing it to someone with footwork so complete as Bernard.

 

Bigger trash-talker, yeah, but Hopkins is the fighter that ruins guys.