Hot take: Erislandy Lara vs. Jarrett Hurd will resemble Yves Ulysse Jr. vs. Cletus Seldin writ large

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jan 25, 2018.



Who is going to wake up the unified 154lb champ the morning of April 8th?

Poll closed Apr 7, 2018.
  1. Lara on points

    56.6%
  2. Lara by stoppage

    5.7%
  3. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Hurd on points

    17.0%
  5. Hurd by stoppage

    20.8%
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Nash Equilibrium Debunker Staff Member

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    ...and on a higher-class tier, but the proportionate gulf in combatants' skill is comparable on both halves of the analogy.

    Lara is giving up 4" height and 2½" reach, and is, at 34 (with his 35th birthday just a week after this fight!), both nearing the ostensible sell-by date for non-heavyweights and seven years older than prime, 27 year old, monstrously-large-for-JMW, athletic-for-his-size, explosive-for-anyone's-money Hurd.

    Still, though.

    Lara ought to be 28-0-1 professionally. Three of his blemishes (including both losses and the latter draw, with Martirosyan, which he later avenged by comfortable UD) were miscarriages of justice IMO. His only deserved blemish (matter of personal opinion - mine, not everyone's - but suffice to say instead his only non-controversial blemish) remains the first, the draw with underrated spoiler Carlos Molina, which I had a draw, as did Teddy Atlas, two of the assigned judges, and most unbiased observers. This was, however, the first real step up in the pro ranks for Lara (his previous biggest having been Darnell Boone & Grady Brewer, neither of whom are quite equipped to prepare one for the nightmare style of a pain-in-the-ass fighter like Molina, who came in determined & hungry for a come-up opportunity after stringing together some nice wins and then languishing on the shelf for nearly two years but staying fresh in the gym) and factoring this in he acquitted himself well, and learned from the experience to better himself in later fights.

    Lara is a master boxer. Hurd is a good fighter, an okay boxer, and one hell of a physical specimen. But he isn't a master boxer. He plays checkers where Lara plays chess.

    For comparative purposes: both fought Austin Trout, but Hurd fought a 17-month layoff worse-for-wear version of Trout and had a hell of a time dealing with him in the first half, dropping the first six rounds in a row on nearly everybody's card (save the Haymon-bought judges') and, while he did have momentum brewing and would've probably forced at least a draw for himself (a win if he scored a KD or two), he was on every fair scorecard down on points as of the stoppage, having received a boxing lesson until Trout's wind supply expired. Lara on the other hand fought Trout four years before Hurd, when his fellow well-educated lefty was smack in his prime (and had been an undefeated champ just eight months prior). Lara schooled him. If you asked him what his solitary one-sided loss to date has been, there is No Doubt what Austin would reply.

    Everything about Trout which gave Hurd difficulty is present in Lara (both are southpaws, both are slick, both are smart, both are fast) and then some, including underrated pop, but missing are some of the flaws which endear the former to fans while Lara still has a hard time rallying them under his banner. Trout is a member of the "can box when he minds his p's and q's but at the end of the day, when goaded, is too much of a warrior for his own good" club, along with Khan, Gatti, Cotto and so many others. Lara doesn't have that problem. He will gladly lure an opponent - especially a larger, clumsier opponent he can make to look foolish with their missed power shots lunged in desperation - into an endless game of pot-shot stick-and-move cat-and-mouse, with no regard for giving ticketholders a sense of having gotten their shillings' worth. Doing this conserves more energy than does Trout's style, which blends slickness and intelligently balanced movement & counter-punching with occasional shows of ill-advised but crowd-charming bravado in center ring (prolonged if you can tag him good).

    On the same card that Hurd squeaked by Trout, a former Olympian with a then-identical 20-0 mark (and with amateur victories over Esquiva Falcão and Jesse Hart x2), named Terrell Gausha was completely dismantled by the same 34 year old Lara that will be entering this unification contest with Hurd. Now, while Gausha was never as hyped as Hurd is now, and isn't half as dangerous a puncher, he does have a significantly better pedigree. Hurd fought just barely over three dozen times in the amateurs, never succeeding beyond regional tourneys (failing to medal @ the national GG's, and never even participating in any major ones abroad) - which means his last stretch of five opponents have been arguably the summit of what "Swift" has seen in the ring: a shot rusty Trout (who still put it on Hurd's ass through six), Kronk scion & glass cannon Tony Harrison (just like Trout, was up on damn near everyone's card through six, outjabbing and outboxing Hurd until he gassed and got caught), Jo-Jo freaking Dan, Óscar Molina (who did enjoy moderate success in the amateurs, though nothing like Gausha's, let alone Lara's...and has proved useless in the paid game), and casino fighter & regional draw Frank Galarza (whose 17-0 with 11 kayos record before he fought Hurd was heavily padded, and who immediately went on to get dropped by & lose to Ishé Smith).

    Let's recap:
    - shot rusty Trout
    - Harrison
    - Dan
    - Molina
    - Galarza

    That is the HIGHEST caliber with which Hurd has ever mixed, amateur or pro. Lara's 6th-10th best opponents (even just narrowing it down to his professional opponents!!!) would probably defeat them if teamed off at random. (and I think Austin Trout of 2017 would be KTFO by himself from 2013)

    Hurd's amateur record was 32-8. Lara's was 320-10. The former lost ⅕ of a small handful of fights against mostly domestic and middling opposition, the latter just 3% of a metric fuck-ton against largely the best in the world.

    So, in summation, while Hurd is "hot" right now, and seemed to dwarf Lara in their face-off at the Showtime Upfront event, and is a talented kid - more talented kids (ie Canelo) have failed to force Lara to stand his ground and fight. Guys with more raw power (arguably, or at least as much - ie Angulo) have failed to keep him down even when they clipped him with something good. Guys with a more refined and seasoned pressure-fighting style (ie Martirosyan x2) have been kept at bay and frustrated over the long haul. Guys with a LOT more skill and higher boxing IQ (ie Trout, Gausha) haven't been able to avoid getting carved up by him. The one guy with an even bigger size advantage and higher workrates (ie PTP) was unable to pick up a clean W over him. Now, Williams did make it close enough to put himself in a position to beat Lara officially (with a little nudge from the judges)...but Hurd is no Williams.



    I think Jarrett gets outpointed widely, or possibly even stopped late. Slow your roll before declaring him the heir-apparent conqueror of 154lb with Jermell Charlo reportedly seeking to follow his brother up to middleweight to attempt to co-reign there. Erislandy is still here. And he's still the man to beat in the division...and if he snatches the IBF belt to go with his WBA, he will officially IMO be the man at last. :thumbsup:
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 Quod Aeterna Brutalis Staff Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly, and have been saying it since the match was first rumored. He was comprehensively dismantled and even hurt several times, (he hid it well) by Harrison and Trout before they finally gassed, Harrison, keeping true to form, Trout in his defense was old and hadn't fought in a year and a half since beating Charlo and getting robbed. And Lara both has a great gas tank, and hasn't racked up the wear and tear of Trout.

    Lara has respectable pop, as evidenced by his savage KO's of Raines, Hearns, Foreman and Zaveck, he just likes to play it safe, as he will here. Regardless, it'll be too much pop for that one dimensional lummox to gingerly walk through, and Lara is evasive enough to not incur the steady build up of damage Hurd's pitty pats have on most of his opponents, because Hurd will be hitting air all night. Hurd will be stopped on cuts or straight up KO'd.
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 Quod Aeterna Brutalis Staff Member

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    Great thread and assessment by the way, if you hadn't done it, I probably would have.:D
     
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  4. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    Didn't read the wall of text on my phone just yet. But I think Lara would have quite a bit of trouble with Hurd's size, extreme reach and power advantages.
    It makes it hard for someone on his bike to hit and run in this case.

    Close UD though for Lara.
     
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  5. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    Cool story bro,

    Did you know Cletus Seldin is a midget and the Canadian chap had a big size advantage over him?
     
  6. Paranoid Android

    Paranoid Android Boxing Addict Full Member

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  7. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    Oh and he might be taller with a slightly larger reach but you are kidding me if you think PW is the same size as Hurd?

    That's like saying Khan is bigger than Canelo
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Nash Equilibrium Debunker Staff Member

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    "Big size advantage"?????? :risas3:

    ....cool story bro. Seriously are you high? Ulysse might have a slight advantage in HEIGHT (and even there, not by more than an inch. He boxes with a straight-up outside style and is naturally lithe in appearance, while Seldin has big shoulders that he typically hunches forward in a swarmer's posture...so while both are listed at 5'7" and I do think Ulysse is actually taller, optical illusions aside, neither is probably more than one inch off from that in either direction).

    Yves is a natural 140lber.

    Cletus is a big one, and has fought half of his career at welter.

    So...you were saying?
     
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  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Nash Equilibrium Debunker Staff Member

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    Oh now all of a sudden you recognize a difference between height and size. :lol:

    ..and yes Paul was as big as Jarrett Hurd. If you're remembering him as some beanpole you're thinking of the WW version. At 154 and 160 there was a lot of corded lean muscle on that frame.
     
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  10. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    Go to spec savers bro, and how long did you take to write this up?

    Myth busted April 7th.

    Lara is not clean slating big Jarrett Hurd and kding him every round
     
  11. CST80

    CST80 Quod Aeterna Brutalis Staff Member

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    Ahem.... mind if I cut in for a minute. Yeah... on the size debate... case closed.:deal:
    This content is protected
     
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  12. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    Why do people always post weigh in photo's, it's in the ring that counts?

    I mean they both weigh 154 @ weigh ins.

    Tony Harrison is a huge 154lber, Harrison looked much thicker than Willie Nelson when they fought and Jarrett made Harrison look small in the ring.

    Size isn't the only factor though but it's big in terms of game plan.



    A storm is coming!!!
     
  13. CST80

    CST80 Quod Aeterna Brutalis Staff Member

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    Williams was massive, please, do me a favor and actually watch some of his matches before making these dismissive blanket statements, okay fine Hurd and Harrison both claim to be 6'1. Well Williams and legit Middleweight who went all the way up to HW, Nobuhiro Ishida is a legit 6'1 as it gets, and Williams made him look small.





    Yeah, there is a storm coming, and guess what, it'll be torn asunder when it hits the craggy awkward rocky mountains of Cuba, like most hurricanes that hit the island, TRUST ME I KNOW, and weakened immensely before losing steam and falling apart completely in the end.
     
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  14. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    You better give Jarrett some respect after he pieces up Lara!!!

    Trout seems to be deemed washed up yet his last performance was a great maybe even career best effort against Charlo?

    What happened in those 17 months?
    Ffs Trout is younger than Lara!!!

    Doesn't 1 time Thurman only fight 1 time a year?
     
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  15. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    This is the best I got

    The hulkster is a little choade

     

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