Hot take: Erislandy Lara vs. Jarrett Hurd will resemble Yves Ulysse Jr. vs. Cletus Seldin writ large

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jan 25, 2018.



Who is going to wake up the unified 154lb champ the morning of April 8th?

Poll closed Apr 7, 2018.
  1. Lara on points

    56.6%
  2. Lara by stoppage

    5.7%
  3. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Hurd on points

    17.0%
  5. Hurd by stoppage

    20.8%
  1. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Usually I go for the boxer, but in this case I like Hurd late. He's forgotten more about boxing than Hurd knows, but Age + Size is a lot. Hurd is about Angulo's size, but I don't think Lara can stay on the bike for 12 rounds anymore.
     
  2. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    TBF, I think that it's going to be a lot easier for a fighter with a size advantage that's as significant as Hurd's to overcome any sort of skill deficit that exists than it would be for a squat fireplug like Seldin so the title does come across as a bit inaccurate, imho. If you're a fan of Lara, it's probably a Martinez-Chavez Jr situation.

    Anyway, I think Hurd's knack for consistently find the body early (which he was able to do quite a bit against Trout and Harrison), aggression, awkwardness, ability to avoid getting tagged really clean especially on a consistent basis, ability to always fire back in response, underrated jab, and his talent for being able to build on any success that he enjoys is getting sold short because he lacks a certain textbook quality that some posters want to see in their boxers. Personally, I don't think that matters. At all. Lara has a tendency to become hypnotized by his own talent and wait to land the perfect counter. He can't do that against Hurd, because the latter will be breathing down his neck from the start; and it's going to get awfully difficult for Lara to break this habit when he finds himself being taken out of his comfort zone.

    The more I think about this, the less I like Lara's chances in this fight. And, I didn't like them all that much anyway.
     
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  3. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hurd's a little bigger, as Angulo is only 5'9".
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    I meant to mention Hurd's body game in the OP, specifically when discussing how Trout and Harrison gassed when they fought him. There is something to be said, as strategy in general terms, for giving away points early in a pawn's gambit to make a savvy long-term investment doing accumulative thoracic damage and hoping it will pay dividends late - and one could make the case that Hurd did exactly that on both occasions.

    Here's the deal, though - Harrison's entire game is centered around snapping that famous Kronk jab. Steward drilled into his mind (as with all his lanky disciples) that with his length and height, by snapping that jab continuously and minding his technique on the execution of it without falling asleep on the job, he would be able to control the distance and theoretically outbox most everyone. Well, that all falls apart when the opponent gives up on headhunting. This was always the open-secret Achilles' heel of Kronk guys. Of course it would have to be someone of roughly equal class and not just any schmo, but if an opponent had a background in basement demolition and was decent at it, and went for it, usually the boys in red-and-gold suffered, to some extent. (Hearns vs. Leonard, notably; Pulev saw pretty much every moment of success against Wlad via focused body punching, and Joshua quite arguably laid the foundation of his stoppage with it). As for Trout (leaving aside for a moment what may sound like excuse-making but is valid in his case - that he's a ravaged, war-torn veteran of the sport that has fought tooth & nail with some beasts, stretching his ring age well beyond his already venerable chronological. His primary style is built on mobility and his legs are slowing down...) - well, as I mentioned in the OP he suffers from gladiatorial inclinations when he smells testosterone in the air; if another peacock in the ring starts up with their macho strut and dares him to show his array of feathers, he's doing it, conditioned response. So he becomes more stationary than he needs to, leaving himself more open to blows (especially body shots, which he is less competent defending from than head shots, which he knows how to pick off & dodge with ease). We saw Hurd many times catch Trout on the chest with a thumping hook that was in fact a second or third chance attack (following a wild miss or two) - as Trout was backing out, a sign that he went for the cheese and found himself stuck in the mouse trap by surrendering the distance the smart fighter in him deep-down knows is a moat he shouldn't cross with a bigger, younger, stronger guy (especially one he already proved he could outbox for several rounds by not getting dumb).

    What I'm saying is, his body punching was and wasn't a factor in bringing Trout and Harrison to heel. It was, to such an extent that both of them allowed it to be (Trout because he loves putting on a show, bless him; while Harrison is simply a jab-bot that doesn't really know any better and has been taught just one mode based on the assumption that everybody is going to be attempting to punch him in the face).

    Lara won't be around, lollygagging in range as willing target for the initial early investment of body punches, so there won't be as much of a toll exacted later. Canelo went practically blue in the face (making him a canvas of primary colors, between the ginger hair and the yellow stripe on his trunks :D) hunting Lara down with the specific aim of slowing him with body shots - to no avail. I don't think Hurd is any better a trap-setter, nor better at cutting off the ring, or better in any department really than Canelo. He's a poor man's version of a guy Lara already defeated/got robbed against - and Williams had faster hands, a higher work rate, equal if not greater power, and could find a way to lay a glove on anyone in the ring, on any region of their anatomy.
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    I don't think, in Ulysse Jr. vs. Seldin, outcome had aught to do with their respective body proportions. Nor will it here, except insomuch as Hurd's bulk will make it hard for him to fix on target, when his target is such a small, fluid, adaptable, intelligent, quicksilver thing.

    As for it being "easy" for the brawnier man, you are enough of a student of the game to know that innumerable cases of "good big guy vs. great little guy" have resulted in giant-slaying feats, without me having to list them out. There are exceptions of course, like Calderón vs. Segura (which, to serve your point, was made possible in part due to Iron Boy getting on in years and facing a triple-threat in El Guerrero Azteca where he was a. much bigger, b. seven years younger, same exact gap as in Hurd vs. Lara, and c. had a physicality and relentlessness about him that might have always spelled trouble for Calderón to some degree) - but I don't believe the analogy holds up here. Calderón was a brilliant technician but he needed to keep in perpetual motion, like a shark, as he could not get his peers' respect consistently with his little doily fists. Lara has basically always been, IMO, the same exact fighter as Guillermo Rigondeaux, plus about two stone and minus just a shred of talent. Now, that may sound like a backhanded compliment now in the wake of the Lomachenko fight but let's remember that Rigondeaux was highly respected for years. That was primarily for his skill (which I think Lara nearly rivals) but it was also widely recognized & commented upon that when he uncorked a clean and perfectly timed shot thrown in spite, he could knock out damn near anyone he wanted to. Same goes for Lara, in my view. He prefers to backpedal and pot-shot, but we have seen him, when almost cornered, sting guys that don't get stung often by even full-bore power shots from punchers, let alone backfoot deterrent taps as Lara mostly throws.

    Plus, at the end of the day, I just don't think Hurd's style is all that poisonous for Lara, the way Segura's was for Calderón. Lara has, as I've mentioned before, already fought a better version of Hurd in almost every way, in PTP. He officially lost that one, but hardly anybody really agrees with that result. I've yet to see anything from Hurd to suggest he poses enough of a unique look (building on his chief strengths, which he shares with The Punisher, except present in lesser supply in Swift) as to be a credible and dangerous threat.

    I think we were rowing cross-stream, you posted this right as I was responding to your earlier post where I corrected my error of omission in the OP of Hurd's strong points (his mindset of putting dents in the walls early, and his willingness to keep firing at the body whenever the distance is closed, not deterred by the first couple of misses, just chucking until he feels some kind of contact, be it on a legal scoring area or arms/backside whatever). He does have the tools to beat a good many fighters at 154lbs, and to maybe sap the energy reserves of lesser boxers than Lara, breaking them down and then mauling them - but I think Lara is simply too good and too slippery for Hurd to consistently touch him with even those second-, third, or fourth-chance hacks of his. Lara has dealt with larger, aggressive opponents breathing down his neck before - several times, in fact, at the elite level in the pro ranks alone. He is pretty adept at not letting them crowd him, roughhouse or impose themselves physically. He clinches where he needs to and otherwise relies on mobility, and like I said his stinging pot shots can get anybody's respect - and I'd wager they smart just as bad as the stuff Trout and Harrison had Hurd hurt with.

    The ring is Erislandy's office. Jarrett is an intern, about to be given a tour of the wide spacious conference room and then sent on a wild goose chase for the "pool on the roof". :thumbsup:

    The more I think about it, the surer I am of Lara's chances to put on a clinic.

    You mentioned an avatar bet with fellow old-heads. Well, as all the old-heads know, in over a dozen years I've only ever rocked two avvies on this forum (of Barrera & Tapia, and DeMarco & myself) and have always avoided these kinds of bets.



    ...you're on.
     
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  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Lara has fought ~300 more times, and his opposition has always for the most part been upper-crust (even his last opponent was an Olympian who entered on the night with the exact same pro record on paper as Hurd, and honestly if you subtract Trout & Harrison you won't find much on Hurd's resume to distinguish it from Gausha's). Hurd, in his sixty opponents (combined am/pro) has faced nobody of finer quality than Harrison and Trout - both of whom pitched shutouts against him through six, with a majority of fan & journo cards reading 60-54 (or at worst, 59-55), wherein those weren't very close rounds.

    Other than being mesmerized by Hurd as some flavor of the week juggernaut with intangibles and physical attributes supposedly ample enough to overcome his lack of finesse & craft, which I fully expect from newbies and casual fans but not from sweet-science academics like Drew, it boggles my mind how you can see this as anything other than Lara being handed the keys to the kingdom at super welter.

    **all this is, barring a "Haymon special", which I am worried about. Hurd is a good meal ticker for PBC to hitch their wagon to, he's very marketable, and young, thus a good investment...while judges have always hated Lara, so him getting the shaft even in a fight he dominates won't really turn any heads or cause much of a stir...**
     
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  7. james5000

    james5000 2010's poster of the decade Full Member

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    Don't you think size helped keep that midget Seldin at bay? All he had to do was stick and move, he was actually beating the midget like a drum. He wasn't just running!!!

    Lara is going to have to move far more than Ulysse did, he can't just stand and trade against Hurd the reach will be a big problem for him if he does.

    Ulysse actually fought a lot like Trout did against Hurd tbh and that didn't work well for Trout.
    It won't work for Lara either because Hurd won't stop marching his ass down!!!

    Lara will fade if he throws more punches with more authority than he has in years don't you think?
    Lara has the foot speed but Hurd has the reach to hit him from the other side of the ring.
    Hurd hits very hard, I would say he does hit harder than Angulo.

    Hurd is like a GGG, every punch he throws is hard, he's just a big strong guy. Angulo is more like a Curtis Stevens, sure he hits like a truck when in full motion, but he has to put everything into his shots to get a result.

    I know Hurd has been asking for this fight for a long time because he has that confidence that he can do a job on him. He has seen Lara buckle by lesser men and he thinks he can do a better job.

    Paul Williams was fresh off a career shortening and sickening KO, KOTY!!!!
    Paul Williams was getting rocked by every shot little man Lara threw.

    I don't see Williams as being as strongly built or capable of taking a shot as Hurd.
    Martinez isn't even that big of a puncher ffs, he landed all night on Chavez Jr and didn't wobble him at all.
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Actually the more I think about it, my title might be a little unfair to the Hebrew Hammer; Hurd will probably connect less on Lara than he did on Ulysse Jr. (of course Lara is much slicker/all-around greater than Ulysse, by a larger proportion than Hurd is - marginally - more accurate and able to land cleanly than Seldin) :D
     
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  9. RacingBeat

    RacingBeat Casual lives matter Full Member

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    Lara straight left will land a million times, all night long,

    UD for the American dream
     
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    :deal: He's gonna break the Comp-U-Box thingamajigger (or give the operator a blister on his right or left thumb, whichever counts the connects)
     
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  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    ...that said, I'm an honorable man, so I'll set a good example for the kiddos and honor this bet even in the event of a plain robbery, @Drew101 :thumbup: (which, I'm like 99.99% sure is the only way you win it. If Hurd clean-kayos the Dream, or makes me regret the Rigondeaux comparison by forcing a No Mas, then I'll be both at your service as far as the image displayed above my username, and deeply humbled/shocked/impressed...)
     
  12. CST80

    CST80 Liminal Space Autochthon Staff Member

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    A few of the middle rounds against Trout, it was like Hurd had a straight left magnet on his face, I don't think Trout could have missed if he tried, they were magically being sucked into the orbit of that massive Jupiter sized cranium of his.
     
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  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    He will definitely be gobbling more straight lefts than Vanes, or Canelo, or PW (three guys that all bring in some combination all of the same overarching elements that supposedly give him a chance versus Lara: height, strength, relentlessness, awkwardness, volume, stamina) - and they collectively had a damn four fight feeding frenzy! Here's some highlights in slow-mo:

    This content is protected
     
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  14. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Yeah, you're right, I thought he was 6-1
     
  15. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

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    Jarrett Hurd has a shot if he imposes his will and strength which I think will be the case, but if Lara can use sophisticated footwork and frustrate Hurd with speed and precision punching he could pull off a comfortable decision. He won't whitewash Hurd though imo.
     
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