Hot take: many recent ATGs who became famous at welter aren't best evaluated with h2h matchups there

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jan 25, 2023.


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  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Examples of 21st century welters that ought to mostly or all but exclusively be put into fantasy match-ups a 147, because that is where they peaked and truly belonged:

    Isufu "Ike/Bazooka" Quarter
    Antonio Margarito
    Miguel "Junito" Cotto (you can argue he was a tweener as his frame maybe did support 140 better; but his chin improved dramatically with that extra seven pounds)
    Ricardo Mayorga
    Zab Judah
    Vernon Forrest
    Cory Spinks

    etc.

    It just happens that for much of the late aughts into early twenty-teens welter had as its centerpieces guys who migrated up from where they physically had the greatest potential in order to chase money & glory. Arturo Gatti tried exactly the same thing as Mayweather, Pacquiao, and Mosley - he just wasn't as successful. Hatton too essentially failed his welterweight experiment. That's why a majority of fantasy threads involving either of those guys takes place at 140lbs, as they're seen as belonging there despite having dabbled at welter. Being very successful and making tons of money at 147 doesn't mean the aforementioned trio need to be tied down there when there's such a bevy of mouth watering matchmaking to be done for them in lighter divisions where they could have remained (and conceivably hit even higher levels of ability than what they reached in reality) but for the allure of a glamour division.
     
    IntentionalButt, Jan 26, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Jan 26, 2023
    #16
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Radar is a strange one. Does he really perform better at 140 than 147 all things being equal, or was it more about lax training habits taking hold?
     
    IntentionalButt, Jan 26, 2023
    IntentionalButt, Jan 26, 2023
    #17
  3. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I always said that, especially in the early 10s when Floyd and Manny were the top 2 p4p fighters and always being compared H2H to ATG welterweights who were naturally larger. I also thought that was a great compliment to both of them for that.

    I always liked to match those 2 up from greats at lower weights. Against guys like JC Chavez, Duran, Arguello, Whitaker, Pryor, etc…


    I thought that Oscar’s peak weight was 140. He was definitely cutting a lot of weight below that, and maybe that played a role in those early knockdowns.

    Maybe it’s a little hard to compare since he spent only a short time at 140 and he would have had more struggles if he fought there longer, but I thought he was more experienced and comfortable at the weight by then, and had some of the physical advantages that were less pronounced at 147.
     
    Thread Stealer, Jan 26, 2023
    Thread Stealer, Jan 26, 2023
    #18
    IntentionalButt and Greg Price99 like this.
  4. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Definitely lack of discipline. As pointed out by another poster, there's no way he was naturally physically prime at 17. As a grown man, he was a WW or even a LMW.

    My only point was, is the Benetiz that fought Cervantes a more formidable LWW H2H, relative to other LWWs, than any WW version was relative to other WWs? I'm not sure, the version that fought SRL may have been a better WW than the one that fought Cervantes was a LWW. That I'm not sure, given he was 17 vs Cervantes, is crazy & a testament to - 1) What a natural talent he was; 2) He early he developed; 3) How his discipline must have dropped off at some point in his early 20's, if not earlier.
     
    Greg Price99, Jan 26, 2023
    Greg Price99, Jan 26, 2023
    #19
    IntentionalButt likes this.
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