How about prime Joe Frazier vs prime Mike Tyson?

I'd rate Frazier's durability and defense higher as well. Particularly long-term.

 

I'll just rehash, another one of my old posts regarding the matter.

 

Frazier definitely has what it takes, but how he would deliver it is where things get blurry, of course Tyson is going to clinch on the inside and get the ref to separate them, Frazier is going to have to try to stun and hurt Tyson during these brief moments, start working the body and try to diminish his speed as soon as possible, and ideally break the clinch before the ref does and come up with a left hook, unfortunately this puts him at risk of uppercuts from Tyson

Frazier has the chin and heart to eat a few big shots, but he absolutely cannot do it casually when he's trying to get inside like he did with Ali, if Frazier can diminish Tyson's speed a bit and end up with more time on the inside in later rounds, this is really the only way I can see him getting it done

 

I really do not know about defense though.
Like Rocky many do not appreciate the defense of a swarmer; but with their size they needed to take more punishment to do damage.
I have read "Frazier was offended if you missed him with a punch"-a funny hyperbole of the shellacking he could & sometimes did take.

But Tyson had excellent defense overall, even a very good jab-esp. considering his reach-I tend to think that peak/peak-a-boo Tyson had better defense than Frazier!

Of course it is all about can Joe get to the later rounds.
Tyson was not useless there-before nearly or fully washed up-but he is gonna lose steam!

Most times I do not believe he gets there.
Although I would be rooting for him, Tyson is just even more blessed with power speed & size.

 

This is one of those match ups that I have changed my mind on over the years. In my opinion this fight is all about range. If Joe Frazier can keep the fight inside close, he would have a chance, but he would pay dearly at mid range while trying to close that gap from mid to in. I would consider Mike Tyson the favorite because of the bombs Joe would have to keep taking on his way in. I would love to watch this one!

 

Not saying I wouldn't favor Tyson but I think most of us aren't giving Frazier enough credit. Tyson didn't have the physicality of Foreman and, what if Frazier doesn't stay down? A factor Tyson does have over Foreman is very compact punches to go along w his two fisted mega power. If Frazier could survive the explosiveness he could win by accumulation but I don't see his defense that good not to b hit w a crushing blow. Along w his durability being a big question mark.

This fight would b an exciting affair guaranteed. Even if an early rds ko would happen.

 

I keep seeing Mike knock down Frazier, only to see him keep getting up and patting his gloves together.

Mike had heart, absolutely. He didn't have Joe Frazier heart.

FOTC Frazier in 11.

 

It's funny all right, but very inaccurate. Frazier had the highest slip and duck against the most accurate heavyweight in history. https://coxscorner.tripod.com/duck....zier: Perhaps the most,a good number of hooks.

Furthermore, Chuvalo rated Frazier harder to hit than Ali and harder to hit than any of his other opponents.

Best defense: Joe Frazier, believe it or not. He was very hard to hit and bobbing and weaving was natural to him. He’s recognized as a great fighter, but not many people compliment Joe on his defense. The uppercut was the only shot he was really susceptible to, as we seen against George Foreman. Joe was excellent at avoiding straight punches, which was the reason he gave Ali so much trouble in the first fight. He slipped the punches and closed the gap.

Tyson's defense was great but it was somewhat robotic imo., and he could definitely be timed if someone figured out his rhythm as Douglas showed. Not that I think it'll be a factor in a match up with Frazier (as opposed to say Liston who I figure would exploit it fairly early). Frazier's was much more unpredictable.

Furthermore, Tyson's defense, faltered dramatically the longer a fight went on. After the 3rd or 4th round or so, he'd all but abandoned head movement.

So Tyson may have a better short term than Frazier (though I'd still go with Frazier there) but has absolutely nothing on Frazier in long term defense.

 

EDIT: I accidentally embedded my texts in Swag's last one, seems he saw it anyway!
I wrote...

You make a good case, although I see Tyson better at least the first few rounds.
I may have to rewatch some early fights to see if he really moved that little from round 5-in his prime.
But Frazier's defense also has been said to be timeable-although granted not as easy as many say.
Foreman was very good at this, & Frazier past his best by then.

Good point about Ali-although he was past his peak, especially in foot speed & still a bit rusty in FOTC, it still was quite an accomplishment.
How did yous core that fight?
Ali rationalized that he won due to landing more blows & thus never crwaled across the ring as offered to kiss Joe's feet & declare him the greatest if he won!

 

Frazier was a slow starter and that's a bad thing vs one of the fastest starting Heavyweight's of all time who had many early KO's, i like Frazier alot but i could see him getting blown early vs Tyson. If Frazier can make it out of the first 4 rounds then his chances of winning greatly increase, and i could see him stopping Tyson late on.

 

I actually scored the fight for Ali 8-7 last I checked. I gave him the third and fourth round which swayed my card towards him. But I can see why the overwhelming majority scored the fight for Frazier, and if it was scored on a points basis, I would've given it to him as well.

I'm happy to be in the minority on this one.

 

I had it close 8-7 for Frazier but I scored 11th round a 2 point round for Frazier aswell, because Frazier in that last 30 or 40 seconds did everything but drop Ali who was out on his feet.

 

I see no advantages for Frazier.Chin power,handspeed ,size,more variety of punches ,and two fisted power,all Tyson.Tyson by ko.

 

What if frazier doesnt go down? Any competent referee would still stop it as Tyson would have enough steam to atleast knock him down once a round for the first 6. Yes Frazier got up 6 times against foreman but was he in any state to still win a fight?

He just doesnt have the speed nor the punch variety to compete. The left hook is probably the punch that tyson is LEAST susceptible to. His best bet to hit tyson with it is to throw it at the same time as Tyson.... and guess what happens then? 9/10 Times its frazier who goes down.

Please tell me who had any succes whatsoever hooking with tyson. Even the guys who absolutely beat the crap out of tyson didnt do so with left hooks. As part of a 4 punch combination when theyve beaten him down already? Maybe. But as the main weapon in their arsenal? No way.

Tyson is Fraziers nightmare matchup. And to say he just gets up 17 times off the canvas and then tyson just pisses his pants and wilts is ridiculous. Thats not how boxing works. Frazier may or may not get up X amount of times but then the referee, the doctor or the corner stops it.

 

Power: Tyson (Frazier's hook was equally lethal)
Hand speed: Tyson (although Frazier was fairly quick)
Foot speed: won't matter, they'll meet ring center and launch bombs immediately.
Chin: Tyson
Recovery: Frazier
Strategy: Frazier
Stamina: Frazier
Inside fighting: Frazier
Mid range: Tyson
Technique: Tyson
Body shots: Even
Combinations: Tyson
Versatility: Tyson
Ring IQ: Frazier
Defense: Tyson
Heart: Frazier

There is very little Frazier does better than Tyson other than keeping his head in the game, better endurance over the long haul, inside fighting, and heart. The problem is Frazier's very few advantages won't matter much if he can't make it past the first 4-5 rounds when Tyson will be pouncing on him like a jaguar from the opening bell.

Frazier is simply outgunned in too many ways and will be fighting fire with fire. Even the best version of Frazier could sometimes be vulnerable early starting slow while Tyson consistently started fast even when he was past his prime. I will say this would be an exciting fight either way because Frazier has a small 30% chance to frustrate Tyson on the inside, smothering his punches and not giving him room to gain momentum and leverage with his head movement. But more often than not, Tyson stops him within 4-6 rounds at the most unless he gets really careless or runs into something big and gets dragged into deep waters.