How amny heavyweights could beat the Jess Willard of Havana in a fight to the finish?

First of all HE grant, its nice of you to take time off at cyberboxingzone to come over here and talk, props.


2ndly, I strongly disagree with your opinion of willard vs carnera. you will also find that many of the better intelligent posters here consider carnera better than willard, so saying it "shows a lack of knowledge" is ridiculous. I think most would agree with your opinion of marciano not beating willard in a fight to the finish laughable.

Take a look at the films, Willard keeps his hands low, sticks his chin out, has a horrible fighting stance....its like he never was taught boxing 101 before. He slaps many of his punches, has no defense whatsoever, has practically no boxing talent even for a man his size. all he has his size stamina durability and a fair jab.


Carnera on the other hand on film demonstrates far better mobility than willard, carnera displayed far better defensive techniques than willard, carnera's jab is much more polished than willards, carnera puts punches together much more efficiently than willard, carnera was just as big and strong as willard. Carnera was the better fighter.


if you compare resumes.......I think carnera has the stronger one too

 

The facial damage he would suffer against the likes of Marciano, Dempsey, and Tyson makes me doubt his chances even if he were to extend them over a long period.

I also don't think he would fare well against Liston, Lewis, and Louis.

These are the names I have as forbidding favorites against Willard.

 

I don't see Jess Willard beating any champion who truly qualfies as an all time great truthfully. He was big and tough, but lacked real skill, and until he faced Dempsey, had never really fought anyone known for reaking any serious havock. A ring worn Johnson took him 26 rounds, and according to some, may even have thrown that fight. Willard's size and survival tactics may have kept him alive for a while against some of history's better fighters, but the prospect of Jess beating anyone who was genuinely good, is beyond my imaginative capabilities.

 

As much as it may attract some screams from certain posters, I can't even see Willard beating many of the short term reigning and alpha champs of the more modern era either. I think a man like Tim Witherspoon would have beaten the day lights out of him. Willard was a product of an era where comp was slim and standards were different. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

 

I'm not a Willard apologist. I agree with you.

 

Agree here. Take out the Johnson fight and his record is really ordinary. He supposedly has an iron jaw, but was stopped 3 times in 36 fights. The two really big punchers he faced, Dempsey and Firpo, blew him out. Yes, he was old, but still, how can we be certain he ever could have stood up to a top puncher. It is all flying blind.

I also think Johnson might have lost to Moran in 1914 in a finish fight. Moran actually did better over the first 20 rounds than Willard did.

 

Why does it show a lack of knowledge? Carnera has a set of excellent wins and despite being knocked down 11 times against Baer (an ankle injury may have had influence), he gave a good account of himself and won many rounds..... Willard just has a win over an old, fat, unfocused Johnson who would've easily won if it went 15 or 20 rounds.

 

Are you joking?

Carnera has the most padded record of set ups and soft fights of any champion in history? His career was based on fixed fights. This is fact. Take a look at his record after the mob dropped him after the Louis fight when he was still a young man. You compare this to Jess Willard? atsch

Oh, and thanks to SQ for the warm welcome...are you including yourself in the intelligent posters here ? Excluding points for boring nastiness, I've seen you post nothing informative or interesting ...

That being said there are some pretty knowledgeable guys here ...

 

Firpo didn't blow him out, he had to beat up Jess for 8 rounds to stop him, and this was even during Willards ill-fated comeback, he was even older and had been even more inactive than he was when Dempsey beat him. Gunboat Smith was an excellent puncher and says that he couldn't hurt Willard with his best punches. Also, the third KO was actually a corner retirment (according to a boxrec quote) not sure what the circumstances were there.

 

Willard was possibly the strongest heavyweight that ever lived and had an iron chin. When he was blown out by Dempsey he was 37 years old and had one fight in four years. He showed tremendous heart in the bout taking that punishment and never quit.

He was 42 when he lost to a murderous punching Firpo.

 

Okay, my description might be too gaudy, but against his four toughest foes, Willard outlasted a fat, poorly trained, 37 year old Johnson after losing badly over 20 or 25 rounds. He lost to Gunboat Smith. He was stopped by Dempsey and Firpo.

He was old against Dempsey and Firpo, but his positive achievements in his prime were not very impressive for a champion. He outpointed Moran, Morris, and Pelkey, and stopped a few second raters. He was beaten by Bearcat McMahon and somehow stopped by Joe Cox. The Luther McCarty fight seems to have been very close.

There is nothing in his record to support a position that Willard was anything more than a big and tough, but very limited, fighter who was probably lucky to have ever become champion, and nothing to support a description of him as iron-jawed.

According to the old Ring Record Book, Gunboat Smith scored 39 ko's in 121 fights. He might have been a stronger puncher than his performance implies, many are, but I also don't think he was a top echelon heavyweight puncher.

 

What does this say of that period?

Your words not mine.......

 

"His career was based on fixed fights."

And Willard? Jack Sharkey denied to his dying day that he tanked against Carnera. Johnson always swore he tossed the fight against Willard and put it in writing.

I think a Willard supporter might be wise to avoid this subject.

 

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