How amny heavyweights could beat the Jess Willard of Havana in a fight to the finish?

I think Tex Cobb could have beaten a fighter like Jess Willard. Willard, was not as devastating as his size might suggest. In fact, it took him 26 rounds to finish a ring worn Jack Johnson, who may or may not have thrown that fight. Take away the Johnson win, and who has Willard proleaxed? Cobb had one of the best chins in the history of the division, along with reasonable power, and skill that was at least average for his day.

Sorry to be so blunt, but Willard was no champion in my book.

 

I rate Johnson no2 but I'm convinced he was stopped on the level by Willard,jack was in front but fading he tried for a ko couldnt get it and exhausted himself.I have an open mind about the Sharkey Carnera fight,Primo was not a big puncher,and had been handled easily by Sharkey 2 years earlier,even being knocked down ,but he could have improved and Sharkey was inconsistant,there was talk of certain people being in Sharkeys training camp and him stopping training at one point to check on his children,but nothing has ever come to light to substantiate a fix.The most damning finger pointing at Carnera's acheivments is possibly the fact that it is traditional for a boxer winning the Heavyweight title to be awarded the Fighter of the Year by the Ring magazine ,the year Carnera won it there was no award given,plus ddespite Carneras long list of "kos" he has never figured on any list of hardest punchers . Be that as it may he was better than is generally realised ,a fair if mechanical boxer ,with a ton of heart.

 

Threw the fight my ass. He (Johnson) ran out of gas and Willard didn't. You don't wait 26 rounds to throw a fight. Willard was there at the end like Maxim was "there" at the end of his fight with Robinson. Willard just outlasted Johnson, and landed a good punch at the end to finish Jack off. Just like most top black fighters then and today, it galls them to admit to having lost to a white man, so Johnson claimed he "threw" the fight. Any excuse would do, and that seemed like a good one. Johnson was so full of **** that he's never admit that he lost legitimately, like he's never admit to anything positive or good about Joe Louis years later. Willard was, if anything, a durable plodder with no real feel for the game and was probably scared of his own killer instinct. I think it's kinda odd that one of the posters wouldn't include Dempsey in list of those who could lick Willard in a fight to the finish. Listen, Dempsey had it in his DNA the ability to destroy Jess Willard, maybe faster or a bit longer down the road if he fought Jess again. As for Primo Carnera, it's documented that one of his opponents, I think it was Ray Impellitiere (probably a misspelling) actually hit himself on the jaw and knocked himself out. Uh, Primo had many, what you'd call "arranged fights" and the terrible secret concerning his chin was safeguarded against really well by the gangsters who guided him along. Close to the title, he actually won some clean fights, but these wern't guys who'd threaten to really hurt him. He couldn't escape being outclassed by Sharkey, but showed gameness in getting up from the knockdown to at least last the distance with the erratic man from Boston. The ko that won him the title is probably legit, but it is strange that he fell face down from an uppercut. I'm willing to believe that it was on the level. A serious, committed Max Baer, if he fought Primo like he did ala Schmeling, would have killed Carnera. Big deal that he got up so many times and actually did well at times, if Baer was the no-nonsense killer he should have been, it wouldn't have gone 2 rounds, and for that matter, there wouldn't have been a "Cinderella Man".

 

w/e man

Ridiculous. For someone who claims carnera couldnt break an egg with a punch, one of his punches knocked big strong bearcat wright flying through the ropes.

 

You sound like you have CyberBoard envy? What were you booted off at some point? They do kick off guys that post like you do.

Back to boxing, so you claim Carnera was a big puncher ? Just setting the record straight.

 

Naw still there, just more here. They kick off guys who post rare information about 1940s-50s heavyweights? thats new to me

No but he was not featherfisted. let me ask you something, in what way does jess willard show anything remotley close to a good boxing stance, good punching technique??

 

No, they kick off guys that attack other posters in a mean spirited way. That is what has kept their board as one of the best. I just happen to like to check out other life from time to time. What name do you use when posting there? There is no SuzieQ49.

Actually info on 40's - 50's heavyweights is great stuff. If that is one of your sweet spots, I'm all ears.

Back to Willard, the thread was about a fight to the finish. To me that is about strength, durability, stamina ect ... a fight to the finish. Under those conditions I feel he had the tools to outlast many guys. In a ten, twelve, fifteen or twenty round scheduled distance fight I have him in the bottom half of champs.

Back to Primo, I happen to like him. I think he had a tremendous heart, was well conditioned and learned to throw a decent jab as his career moved on. However, I just feel he was not a legit champ.

 

Well stay in tuned because I am almost finished with my 1950-1955 heavyweight top 12 evalutation mini feed. it will be posted shortly.

 

This is how I see it.

 

The Ko was legit. In fact, Willard nearly doubled Johnson over from a body shot in the previous round. You have to watch the films to appreciate the build up to the ending. Like many old time fights, the Willard vs Johnson fight is full of some misconceptions. The first 15 rounds were mostly Johnson's, but the tide changed after that, and from rounds 20 to finish, it was mostly Willard's.

On point of note on Johnson, he really was not much of an out fighter vs men his size such as Moran or Willard. Instead, he had to get inside to go to work. The films show this.

 

Johnson was 37 years old , had been out of serious fighting condition for years and allowed himself to sign for a terrible fight. Maybe the question should be how in the world did Jack Johnson, the champion, allow this fight to be made under the 45 round terms ... in fact , Johnson performed spectacular for the first twenty rounds ... the ko was real.

SQ: Looking forward to the list. It's a tricky era since 99% of the focus and info that remains is on Charles/Walcott/Marciano. I'd be interested in learning more about the other guys ...

 

Agreed Grant

 

Ali, Holmes, Jeffries, Tyson, Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Foreman, Marciano, Jeanette, Langford, McVey, Lewis, Frazier, Tunney... also both John L. sullivan and James J. Corbett likely could have done it, as well as several others (Charles, Walcott, Klitshko, etc.). Willard was an unskilled giant oaf. There are many heavyweights I pick over him, a prime Jack Johnson would have beaten him as well. Willard could go 20+ rounds, which a lot of more modern heavyweights can't, but anyone with good stamina, decent skills, solid power, and a sturdy chin beats him.