How anyone can think the 03-05 Pac is better than the 08-10 version??!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by horst, Jan 5, 2011.


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  1. horst

    horst Guest

    I didn't conveniently forget anything. I wasn't doing a comprehensive list of all of Pacquiao's wins, I was taking two fights in isolation to make a point. Pac showed none of the variation against Marquez in full flight attacking mode that he did show against Cotto when he was on the offensive. I didn't mention Barrera 1 just like I didn't mention Oscar, Hatton or Margarito. Is it not possible to make one point without mentioning every other possible point??

    And anyway, to me Barrera 1 is Pac's best win, but it certainly isn't Pac's most impressive, most complete performance, and the reasons for that should be obvious to you or anyone else who has watched Pac throughout his career.

    I can imagine. But I prefer not to. I deal in reality.

    Not sure what the relevance is, but interesting comment nonetheless. I remember commentators and analysts saying before the 1st Morales fight (130) and the Diaz fight (135) that Pac might have trouble because he was the naturally smaller man. To me, that's just another layer to the man's greatness.
     
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    #46
  2. Brownies

    Brownies Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He's a bit slower, so many people think he's past his prime. However, he's a more intelligent and complete fighters since 2008. He learned a lot from the Morales and Marquez fight and I think he's a better boxer since. He may have peaked in 2008-2009, but you can't really say that the guy who annihilated Margarito and Clottey in the last year has really regressed...

    Look at guys like Marquez, Hopkins, Johnson and tell me that experience isn't an important attribute of a fighter.
     
    Brownies, Jan 5, 2011
    Brownies, Jan 5, 2011
    #47
  3. whoupicking?

    whoupicking? Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's clear you are one of these people i am talking about.
     
    whoupicking?, Jan 5, 2011
    whoupicking?, Jan 5, 2011
    #48
  4. Zopilote

    Zopilote Dinamita Full Member

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    Popkins, lets say The Pacquiao of the Barrera fight, was a natural welterweight, and fought Miguel Cotto...Do you think he would beat Cotto still?

    Just curious about this.
     
    Zopilote, Jan 5, 2011
    Zopilote, Jan 5, 2011
    #49
  5. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    He is better from a technical standpoint, no doubt. He is a lot smarter and more experienced than he used to be too. However, pound for pound he is a lot smaller, he is slower, hits less hard and busts up more easily than he used to. Also even though he throws a lot of punches, I think his stamina has declined.
     
    PH|LLA, Jan 5, 2011
    PH|LLA, Jan 5, 2011
    #50
  6. this_and_that

    this_and_that Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Actually this is hardly noticeable if you ask me.
    His amazing stamina if one of the reasons why nuthuggers cry PED usage.
     
    this_and_that, Jan 5, 2011
    this_and_that, Jan 5, 2011
    #51
  7. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Pacquiao reminds me of Wladimir in a way. Both had there physical peaks when they were younger but now they are peaked mentally and are more complete boxers. I wouldnt say Pacquiao now is "less exciting" but I agree that he isn't as "brawl happy" as he used to be in order to avoid being countered more. I saw the Marquez-Pacquiao 1 fight again like last week and that left was like a laser but I thought Marquez won the rounds where the left wasn't reallly a dominating force. He always had a good right hook(well maybe he developed it with Roach I dunno) but he relied too much on his big left. Now he throws more punches and probably is a better bodypuncher than then aswell. Admittingly I haven't seen a lot of Pacquiao pre-Roach but even with Roach earlier he was still one-armed. A capable, dangerous fighter but was still one-armed.
     
    techks, Jan 5, 2011
    techks, Jan 5, 2011
    #52
  8. Leonard

    Leonard Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i think 147 is not is optimum weight, 140 is. i also think pac is past his physical prime but not far from it. when he was fighting at 122-126, i believe that was his physical prime. in terms of skills, he is better now than he used to be at the lighter weights. he was more explosive back then but more calculated and complete now. in terms of style, i definitely prefer this version of pac.
     
    Leonard, Jan 5, 2011
    Leonard, Jan 5, 2011
    #53
  9. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW ESB Official Gif Poster Full Member

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    He was definitely feeling the pace in the Margarito bout, and also showed slightly in the Cotto bout late on. The extra weight is no doubt the main reason...he takes breaks in rounds now, whereas I never really noticed him do it before the Cotto bout.
     
    AnthonyW, Jan 5, 2011
    AnthonyW, Jan 5, 2011
    #54
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    I don't do that kind of stuff mate.

    When Pac beat Barrera he was 126lbs, when Cotto fought Pac he was 145lbs. Would a 145lbs+ Cotto beat a 126lbs+ Pac? You bet he would.

    That's the only way I consider questions like these. The old chestnut about "say they were the same size" makes no sense at all to me, so I never indulge in it.

    You make a 126lbs Pac into a 145lbs fighter, you unalterably change him as a fighter. You make a 145lbs Cotto into a 126lbs fighter, you unalterably change him as a fighter.

    For me, this is an impossible, illogical and meaningless thing to even consider. JMHO mate.
     
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    #55
  11. Arcane

    Arcane One More Time Full Member

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    Current Pac is the best Pac, but 03-05 Pac beat better fighters.
     
    Arcane, Jan 5, 2011
    Arcane, Jan 5, 2011
    #56
  12. Starched Him

    Starched Him Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pac was garbage back then with 1 hand

    Now he is almost complete

    Marquez could beat that guy back then, now no chance even if they were both 135 pounds no chance
     
    Starched Him, Jan 5, 2011
    Starched Him, Jan 5, 2011
    #57
  13. horst

    horst Guest

    Pac had extremely close fights with Marquez and Morales in this timeframe. His physical prowess saw him through. You put the current version of Pac in with Morales/Marquez calibre fighters around 140lbs, and I believe he deals with them more easily.

    I think Pac's decline in speed, stamina and power are being rather ridiculously overstated on this thread. The way Pac maintained all three attributes into the latter rounds vs Margarito was astounding IMO. I'm a firm believer that it takes far more out of you physically to fight a much bigger and heavier man, and that's what makes it even more incredible that Pac put that 11th round on Margo the way he did.
     
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    horst, Jan 5, 2011
    #58
  14. Starched Him

    Starched Him Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    true but he wouldnt have had hard time with any of those fighters today
    he was losing, fighting to draws

    now none of those fighters stand a chance even if they were prime
     
    Starched Him, Jan 5, 2011
    Starched Him, Jan 5, 2011
    #59
  15. bulakenyo

    bulakenyo Am I a boxing fan yet? Full Member

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    He was not really a one handed fighter before 2001.

    He had good right hand power. Flurries and hooks. (Not as technically good as today, though)

    Just not enough stiff jabbing. And gets too left straight happy, sometimes.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dh1RMi6wLI[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-_VVKV7F2o[/ame]



    Memorable right hand. Delayed reaction KO.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2po63Lm7kg[/ame]
     
    bulakenyo, Jan 5, 2011
    bulakenyo, Jan 5, 2011
    #60
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