How bad was Joe Louis's opposition ?

I haven't seen Elmer Ray. But I doubt he was in Schmeling's class.

Sure, Louis didn't fight everyone who could possibly give him a good fight. But I don't think any fighter has, certainly not at heavyweight.

 

Ah, so you're selectively taking what O'Loughlin says(read: his opinion) as fact? The part about plans for Ray being set up for more fights is not subjective. It is a statement about the near managerial future and goals for Ray. Loughlin's assertion about Louis is subjective.

smh

 

Neither has Mendoza .

 

How many guys with LIMTIED skills did Louis face?

Did he face any SUPPER middles?:rofl

 

I didn't say Jeffries ducked Johnson ,the author of the book you are pushing down everyone's throat did.

Jeffries should have been dsq'd for DESTORYING Munroe, or as you normally call him, MUNORE

 

No. Melio Bettina would be, I think.

And Alberto Lovell might be a bigger omission than Franklin.

 

You could say Roscoe Toles ,who fought Lovell 3 times ,beating him twice and drawing the other, was a bigger omission than Lovell,except that Louis kod him in 6 rds.:good Bettina lost twice to Conn,whom Louis kod twice.

 

Joe Louis' opposition sucked dead donkey's azz , Max Baer was **** , Lou Nova was **** , Max Schmelling was **** , they all were **** . Billy Conn is even overrated as a lightheavy .
Carnera was total **** , Derrick Jefferson would have killed him .
Louis' opposition was lesser quality than Oleg Maskaev .
Maskaev destroyed Rahman twice , Baer was destroyed by Lou Nova twice .
Maskaev also stopped Derrick Jefferson , Jeff Wooden and Robert Hawkins so he surely wasn't as bad as some here try to make of him .

 

"Bettina lost twice to Conn"

When both were lightheavies. Anyway, I am not saying Bettina was better than Conn, who Louis said was the best opponent he fought as champion. I am just saying that Bettina might well have been better than any of the guys mentioned here that Louis did not fight.

Toles was ko'd by Louis in 1935, and the old Ring Record Books, compiled by contemporaries, viewed this as a legit fight not an exhibition.

Toles did have Lovell's number in the early forties, but he is pretty much the only guy who did. Lovell beat Maxie Rosenbloom (who beat Toles), Arturo Godoy 3 of 5, and Red Burman. For some reason, a loss in 1937 to Gunnar Barlund more or less sent Lovell back to Argentina for good, but Lovell remained a consistant winner into the fifties. He probably would have made a good opponent for Louis.

**Bettina was the most consistant heavyweight from the time he entered the division in 1941 until 1947, losing only to Bivins, whom he also defeated and drew with in a three bout series. He also defeated Gunnar Barlund, Red Burman, Pat Valentino, Harry Bobo, Gus Dorazio, Lou Brooks, Buddy Walker, Curtis Sheppard, Eddie Blunt, and Joe Muscato.

 

Oh go back to sleep.atsch

 

Lovell did not deserve a title shot off of his record. He remained a consistant winner because he was fighting ham and eggers. Bettina did not get a shot which you can argue he may have merited because Blackburn would never put Louis in with a southpaw, and advised Roxborough accordingly.

 

In some ways it is surprising that Louis never crossed swords with Gunnar Barlund. Perhaps the most likley time would be during Louis's pre title run.

 

Mcvey

I am not criticizing Louis for not fighting Bettina who peaked during the war, but I thought Janitor's question was who was the best fighter during the Louis era whom Louis didn't fight. It might be Ray. Or it might be Bettina.

Lovell was the #4 contender in 1937 and had wins over Maxie Rosenbloom, Red Burman, and Arturo Godoy, as well as fringe contenders such as Lenglet, Hankinson, and Eddie Blunt. You are correct about his level of competition falling off in the 1940's (although he still beat Godoy in 1941 and 1942) but unlike most of the Louis era heavyweights he was rarely stopped and never had a long losing streak, including in the late thirties when he did meet several top five men. I think he definitely would have been a worthy challenger to Louis in the late thirties.