How bad was Joe Louis's opposition ?

Do you really seriously believe that there were two decades where there were no decent heavyweights?

Can you honestly pinpoint one decade outside this period where this is the case?

Or is the more logical explaination the common factor e.g. Louis.

I doubt there is enough money in the world to get Jones in the ring with Schmeling.

 

I agree with that. However, why do guys like Tyson and Holmes get slack for doing the same. They fought the best the division had to offer while they were in their respective primes!

 

Interesting thread. I am not an expert historian, but I looked at the yearly Ring ratings to see how Louis did fighting the highest rated fighters.

Champions--Max Schmeling*, Jack Sharkey*, Primo Carnera*, Max Baer*, Jimmy Braddock*, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott*, Rocky Marciano

(so Louis fought every champion between Tunney and Patterson)

#1 Contenders--(starting in 1929)--Jack Sharkey*, Max Schmeling*, Max Baer*, Steve Hamas, Lou Nova*, Tony Galento*, Bob Pastor*, Billy Conn*, Jimmy Bivins*, Melio Bettina, Tami Mauriello*, Jersey Joe Walcott*, Ezzard Charles

(Louis fought every #1 contender between Young Stribling in 1928 and Nino Valdes in 1953 with the exceptions of Hamas and Bettina.

#2 Contenders--Max Schmeling*, Ernie Schaaf, Max Baer*, Tommy Loughran, Primo Carnera*, Tommy Farr*, Bob Pastor*, Arturo Godoy*, Lem Franklin, Tami Mauriello*, Elmer Ray, Ezzard Charles, Lee Oma, Lee Savold*, Rocky Marciano

(Louis did not fight #2 contenders Schaaf, Loughran, Franklin, Ray, and Oma)

Of those Louis didn't fight, Schaaf was dead and Hamas out of the sport. Oma wasn't that good.

That leaves only Bettina as a #1 contender Louis didn't fight, but Bettina was rated this high during the war and lost his rating by 1946.

Of the #2 contenders-Loughran was going back by the time Louis came onto the scene.

Franklin was s shooting star who came up quickly and went down just as fast after being ko'd by Pastor. Ray has the best case as someone Louis should have fought but didn't.

*Louis defeated this man

Conclusion--Gosh. What more could the guy be expected to do.

 

Put another way, Louis fought every fighter who could sustain himself as a top notcher (champion or top contender) from the late twenties to the early fifties, or over a period of about a quarter of a century.

 

Conclusion: Louis was awesome.

Close thead.

 

Very bad.

They didn't call his title defenses bum of the month club for no reason.

 

Not Holmes. While Holmes' division was stronger than Louis' , he made the most out of fighting the least that it could offer - no Gerrie Coetzee , Pinklon Thomas. There is a reason 2 why Holmes was stripped of his titles despite he had the ultra corrupt Don King on his side.
Louis' era was weak , Holmes' was a tad bit stronger , but , most of the men Holmes actually fought were on par with the men Louis did.
1 could always wonder how would Holmes deal with Arnold Cream for example.
Although conversely , James Smith was a bigger threat than anyone Louis ever fought until and during his prime and possibly in his whole career.
Louis' opposition was bad though.
Tyson's was much better.

 

they were'nt!

 

From what I've seen of the highly rated Max Baer he was pretty awful. That's only one example though, I still have Louis as the second best ATG heavyweight

 

Hm, Holmes also gave no rematches. Louis always gave rematches when he had close fights or his performance was not as dominant as expected and he was always moe impressive in rematches too. Also Louis´opponents were in their primes while Holmes fought quite a few old - Shavers, Norton - or inexperienced guys - Frazier, Witherspoon. Louis´ opposition overall was better and more accomplished too. And Louis was more dominant, there was no challenge to him when he had the title, there were several beltholders throughout Holmes´ reign. Louis was also older when he finally lost his title and against a better more accomplished hw (Charles) than Holmes (Spinks). Louis´ just better in any category here.

Tyson was as dominant as Louis. Tyson was dominant for four years. Louis was as dominant for 12. Three times as long. His opposition was also better outside of Holyfield, Lewis and Holmes. And Tyson 1-3 there. Louis´ record against contenders and champs is clearly better than Tyson´s too. And while Tyson´s longevity is pretty good, Louis´ is even better.

I rank Holmes at 6 and Tyson at 7. Neither is in the same league as Louis though. The only one who is is Ali after those two there is a huge gap.

 

Joe Louis beat 30 fighters who were rated in The Ring's top 10 at the time he fought them.
His 3 losses were also against top 10 guys.

His 30-3 record against top 10'ers is second only to Muhammad Ali at heavyweight.
Ali's record vs. top 10 opposition was 32-5.
His losses were also against top 10'er - 3 of them avenged.


Some other notable heavyweights' records vs. top 10 contenders or Ring champions:

Evander Holyfield: 11-7-2
Mike Tyson: 12-3, 1 NC
Lennox Lewis: 15-2-1
Vitali Klitschko: 9-2

 

now the numbers are considerably less and I suspect opponent for opponent less also compared with the great Joe Louis and Ali.

 

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He would knock out Vitali Klitschko like he did Carnera and B. Baer.

 

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