How big does a Heavyweight need to be?

Good enough is big enough. Tyson made all the heavyweights look lanky and clumsy, while Klitschko keeps men the size of Ali at the end of his jab all night

When the 6'4+ boxer pool expands with time, average talent among them will rise and we will see more and more superheavyweights.

 

Why would he be a killer in boxing? He would be awful. Who wants another valuev? Boxing is an art. fighters are suposed to be matched closer in size to determine who is the best man not the biggest. A giant oaf (who can't actually fight) swamping a better technician with nothing but sheer gargantuan mass is almost a *** crime.

 

6'1 around 200 pounds is more than enough imo if he is smart, athletic, explosive, skilled and most importantly in shape un like most heavies these days.

 

You don't think that is an overly quick conclusion? Better to say you are completely unfamiliar with his athletic talent and let it go at that.

James has perhaps singularly the best athletic talent you can find - in a man his size - on this planet - bar none.

First, this is a man that at 6'8" who is uniquely able to guard - which means he has tremendous agility and foot speed - and track, and cover, and react to the smallest and quickest players in the NBA (these are athletes approximately between 6'0" and 6'4").

Second, this is a man that at 6'8" is also able to guard the largest players - centers and power forwards (these are athletes approximately 6'9" to 7'1") and regularly does so. He is able to do this because of his core strength and explosive jumping ability.

Third, he is a 6'8" player who has some of the best hand to eye coordination and reflexes making him one of only perhaps two (three if you go back and include someone like an Oscar Robertson) players in NBA history - with Earvin Johnson - who had his size while also having the coordination, vision, and ability to be an elite passer (an area more the province of the smallest players on the court - i.e., a point guard).

Fourth, he is a 6'8" player who is in the top tier of all the players in the NBA in both vertical leap and in end to end running speed while carrying an impressive 250+ pounds.

Fifth, he is the floor general. He is singularly the player that dictates, directs, and controls the tempo and pace and this position is normally one reserved for the smallest players.

Sixth, this is an athlete with superb hand and foot speed who is aerobically and physically fit. This is an athlete so fit, innately talented, and exceptionally strong and fast, that Wladimir and Lennox would look ponderous (though smaller), and slow, in their movement and footwork, comparatively.

Wladimir, Vitali, and Lennox (super heavyweights) would appear more akin to Valuev than James would because of their foot speed and comparatively limited agility and innate athleticism. James would be larger than all three while offering the unique attribute and ability to be far quicker across the board in every facet.

This is no "oaf" and no slow-witted athlete.

Ask any professional athlete - in so many different sports or athletic endeavors - who makes the commitment and sacrifice to be fit and excel at the highest level - whether their activity in the aggregate requires some lesser degree of talent and individuality than boxing and you'll discover that this is a fallacy. You'll get the support of a certain percentage of boxing fans on this forum who agree but that is preaching to the choir.

No problem with your recognition that there can come a point in which a much larger super heavyweight defeats another (smaller) heavyweight with greater skill solely because he is taller and heavier and is successful in applying his size advantage. That is why some give more credit or slightly more credit for being successful or dominant while giving away height (Tyson) and less for being both taller and heavier (Klitschko) than the opposition (and additionally fitter in this lousy era).

But, James could be nothing like a Valuev. An athlete with his skillset, size, fitness, and exceptional abilities if applied to boxing could quite possibly if not likely be the next step in the evolution of super heavyweights. That is what the poster was referencing. I don't think he was envisioning 6'8" 250+ lb James as an "oafish" giant relying upon size to defeat the incredibly mediocre Chisoras, Arreolas, Leapais, Chambers, Peters, or even Povetkin or Cunningham or Solis, etc., etc. Similarly, it wouldn't take all that much to imagine an athlete with James' capabilities having little difficulty with the incredibly untalented pool of 3rd rate but ample sized big men including - in no particular order - Thompson, Wach, Fury, Pianeta, Dimitrenko, Price, Pulev, Austin, McCline, etc., etc.


There would be athletes to diss as unlikely to make it as boxers. James would not fall into that category. Not at all.


As for the topic .. it depends upon upon the other athletes in the division. In a one off situation, almost any size within reason could be enough on a single night. Under the attrition of a career, then it is best to be of comparable size to the most talented WITH the most size so as to be able to sustain oneself against the rigors and wars.

In evaluating the sport to date, it is clear that as the world population has increased and quality of life with it generally, there are more larger sized well-fed humans to become athletes than ever before.

At the moment, with heavyweight boxing lacking much quality, it would take less than it could under potential scenarios. Ultimately, there is no physical reason why there couldn't be a SUPER heavyweight with the speed and ferocity of Tyson combined with the quickness and talent of Ali.

 

Jack Sharkey 6'0" 197-205
Max Schemling 6'1" 188-193
Primo Carnera 6'5" 260-270

Max Baer 6'2 210-220
Jim Braddock 6'2 187-194
Joe Louis 6'2 197-211

Ezzard Charles 6'0 178-182
Rocky Marciano 5'11 184-190
Floyd Patterson 6'0 182-194

Sonny Liston 6'1 210-215
Muhammad Ali 6'3 206-220
Joe Frazier 5'10" 205-220

Larry Holmes 6'3 210-220
Mike Tyson 5'10" 215-220
Evander Holyfield 6'2" 205-215

Lennox Lewis 6'5" 245-250
Vitali Klitschko 6'7" 247-250
Wladimir Klitschko 6'6" 240-247

Outside of the exremes of the 50s and present, size range has been consistent. 6'0-6'3" 200-220 lbs.

 

difficult to say because there are not too many natural heavyweights these days. I heard it said there are not any Marciano's around today and that is true and one of the reasons is because Heavyweights dont train to make weight anymore. The funny thing is where were the Big guys the Lennox Lewis, Klitschko's, Bowe's back in the 80's 70's,60's,50's,40,s,30's,20,s etc. they were not successful. I think the perfect size heavyweight would depend on the natural skill level and the strength and weight and stamina being perfectly fit for that frame. I spoke to many of the old-timers and modern day guys and they said very rarely you will get a freak like Marciano at 5"11 and 188lbs with the kind of power and stamina that he had and you can add the 5'8 Langford to that list of freaks and Ruby Robert at his weight and freakish power. Mike Tyson was really another freak at 5'10 215-220

That being said Joe Louis who was about a hair under 6"2 and 200-215 lbs was the perfect size opponent for all sizes and shapes and colors but Louis had the perfect punching technique, speed of power punching combinations and mentality.

Ali had good size and speed and Dundee said he was measured at 6"2 but I heard it said he was really a hair over. Based on these 2 men I would say 6'2 215lbs but like all of the men mentioned above they would need to bring extraordinary talent and will and desire and heart to the table in order to dominate so size may be just one of the factors

the better bigger men would be Lewis ( who was 2x Ko'd by a Louis size opponent with far less power or combination ability) Lewis also had a tough time with guys that were rugged like Mercer and Holyfield, He outfoxed the 5'10 Tua but so did Byrd but I can not see Lewis or the Klitschko's or Bowe being able to handle the speed,power and combinations of Louis but Lewis would bring some early danger but just hard to catch Louis if he had a plan fit for a style. Bowe got hit too much to be hit by the brown bomber, and Vitali and Vlad have there strengths but I can not see them beating the superman of the Heavyweight division Joe Louis.....even Ali had his bag of tricks but Joe Louis, his power, his perfect punching and 15 rounds is a tough order for anyone

so for me the perfect heavyweight is Joe Louis 6'2 210lbs of platinum with Ali at 6'2.5? 215 coming in 2nd

 

Nope. Lebron James=Niko Valuev. Your point is nullified.

 

to this day i have not seen anyone with more one punch power than 6' 210lb earnie shavers.and in mma currently mark hunt is 5'10" and(an overweight 264lb,should be about 235lb) and at age 40 is ranked in the top 5 and one of the most feared punchers in mma. roy nelson too he is 6'. daniel comier was climbing the heavy weights at 235lb and 5'10",undefeated,
now dropped down to 205lb.

 

Or much more likely he would have been the next Julian Francis.

There are thousands of yoked, giant guys in gyms all over the world. Fat Andy Ruiz, Jr would kick all their asses.

 

Lebron is a ballplayer hyped as an uber athlete by the media. He has a good, not great, vertical and decent speed (4.7 40 by his own admission), not overwhelming. He is very strong for his sport and very nimble. There are faster, stronger guys with the same size in the NFL or in anonymous gyms across the world. They just can't hoop.

For overall athleticism, I will take Ashton Eaton by a mile. 10.2 100 meters, long jumps 27 feet, high jump almost 7 feet and can toss the discus 160 feet. Much more impressive. No hype machine.

 

Sorry. Wrong. As usual. He's got a 4.6 "by his own admission" last summer without any training or prep for it. Only two tight ends ran faster at the latest combine than his 4.6. Want to speculate on what a comparably sized Wlad, Vitali, and Lennox could run? Really .. what do you think? Wouldn't even be in the same realm.

He has a great vertical at above 40. Not the best ever .. not Wiggins' 44 or David Thompson's 42 .. but a tremendous vertical .. especially at 250+.

"There are faster, stronger guys with the same size in the NFL or in anonymous gyms across the world. They just can't hoop."

Actually, there are very few players with the same size and speed in the NFL. The fastest defensive ends EVER are only a shade below 4.5. The fastest tight ends EVER are only in the 4.5 - 4.6 area and the fastest are not as big as James.

And there are none in gyms across the world (that is hyperbole). You find me 6'8" guys running 4.6 or better and they won't be hanging out doing nothing in local gyms. As to stronger, no doubt. But that is irrelevant to my points. He is the combination of attributes - combining speed with size with power with talent with athleticism with fitness. Nothing less. Finding guys who can lift more would mean you simply didn't read or understand my post.

Overall athleticism, Ashton Eaton? No way. Not even in the ball park. Why? Because he is 6'1" 185 lbs. Doesn't even ring the register.

There is no hype on Lebron. He is universally considered by HIS PEERS to be the ONE. If you can't see what real athletes can see .. well, you get my point. This is a huge athlete with the best combination of attributes to do ANYTHING in which power, speed, and athleticism is required. Tremendous hand to eye coordination, body control, and talent in a large sized athlete.


[Waited as long as I could - can't hold here any longer in case you have an eventual comeback - Cheers for now]

 

:good

Exactly. All this bull**** about assuming a particular sportsman who can't fight (and has never fought!) can not only fight but make an impression on boxing history is extremely insulting to all combat sports.

Like all they have to do is take it up and click! Automatic world champion. When did the ATG swimmer or Ping pong player walk into a boxing gym put on the gloves and wipe the floor with professional boxers? All of a sudden a tall muscular guy excel's at one sport and people assume he can fight!

Sure the best boxers might come from good athletic stock as well as being able to fight but it is the "the being able to fight" that separates mere sporting athletes from athletes who can excel in hand to hand combat after a lifetime of developing within it.

How do we know that hand an eye co ordination will stand up in the eye of the storm of a real firefight? How do we know that mastering distance, mastering all the moves and rythm will come naturaly? Not to mention assume that there is no need to develop a resistance from years of being punched in the face...