How can anybody be ranked above Usyk pound for pound?

Oh yeah,

Deez nuts,

Confirmed.

 

So can you prove they are spreading misinformation?

 

Of course.
The concept is ludicrous. Unless a welterweight/middleweight is willing to get in the ring with a heavyweight and show himself to be competitive (it has happened in the past), he has no business being listed on a rankings with a heavyweight.

The idea is ridiculous.
It's like putting an average-looking woman on a "world's most beautiful woman" list because all her friends are dog ugly, (instead of just saying she's the best looking one of her group).

 

Pretty sure I already did that and highlighted their avoidance. What would you like? A quote or an excerpt from a book?


I wrote a post about p4p. No problems there. I wrote a little sidebar about lineal, no issue there either. I named two members here guilty of the accusation and now all of a sudden I to provide need proof Adam Pollack calls John L. Sullivan the first world hw queensberry champion. ... ... ... ... ...

So here's the issue, if Adam nor Matt did not know Sully only fought mixed rules, most of the world didn't box, and these criticisms were contemporary not posthumous then their pay-for history is in fact lacking the free information found of forums. If they did know then they are knowingly spreading misinformation largely originating from a source it is widely known and accepted made up history and wrote fiction he called fact. While maintaining they represent serious academia beyond that found prior or for free.


Funny that, I am over here with an entire sacred cow all altered up and ready to slay, no issue with any of that, but, don't I dare name members here a part of that institution. One would think telling you, you think about p4p and lineal the way you do because all boxing media is terrible at their stated goal would be the controversial statement. I'm throwing the entire IBRO under the buss just in case you missed that. But that's cool, fine, just don't say anything about Pollack or Matt doe. ... ... ... ... ... your are translucent.

 

Say whatever you want about people, im just asking if you have proof they're spreading misinformation.

I think an issue is because English isnt your first language some of your ideas get lost in translation.

So youre claim is that John L Sullivan shouldn't be considered the first HW champion in the boxing lineage?

The burden of proof is on you. Why do you believe he shouldn't be the first HW champion and who do you believe should be?

 

Crazy how people who are invested in the aforementioned institution struggle to understand simple English while those with no investment whatsoever have no reading comprehension issues they blame on others. You are claim huh? It's okay, as fragile as my understanding of the English language is, I understood anyway.

That's a gross simplification for the stance that says your entire view on boxing championships was fabricated by the boxing media and does not hold up to the scrutiny of facts.

I'm not saying John is or isn't anything. I'm saying to say he is, is to take a stance in a fan's debate. Hence, not history, fanboyism. As super difficult a word choice as that is to follow I implore you, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

 

Im not debating that. Im asking you what misinformation you feel Adam Pollack has spread.

 

P4P is pretty silly, but at the end of the day, I translate it to

"Taking size/wieght/divisions out of the equation"

i.e. purely on skills, IQ, intangibles etc

Even that is a bit strange today with folks that can cut so much weight compared to others and lack of same day weigh-ins etc, it's almost P4P in some divisions (see Loma vs Haney etc etc)

 

No, you're being purposefully obtuse to muddy the message. Seems like your reading comprehension issues went away when I chose more colorful word choice rather than plain speech. Interesting isn't that?

The lack of debate is the misinformation Mr. Pollack has spread so it would be a rather convenient to refuse it. You sir most certainly are debating, and, "that", is exactly what you are debating.

 

The only thing obtuse and muddy is your actual point.

What misinformation has been spread by Adam and what is proof.

 

You're going in circles because you don't like my answers not because I haven't answered. Your attempt to simplify is a rather crude attempt at what fans often refer to colloquially as goal post moving. It's not impressive, it's thinly veiled, and you've been called out repeatedly.

It was you who denied debating the subject that inspired you to interact with me ...

now you want me to pick another and make sure it applies to Pollack despite me criticizing Matt as well, the entire IBRO, CBZ, and Ring? Okay, what is it about your understanding of lineal has been warped by those with a monetary interest in warping your perspective on lineal and those duped by the original conman is difficult to follow? What about what I had to say about p4p is difficult to follow? Okay now you need me to drag Adam in again, cool, has he books? Is he writing anything about how our entire history is a minefield of unchecked fiction, sources that do not say what authors claim, and circular verification? Oh then he's writing about champions as you know them, p4p as you understand it, and lineal as a matter of contemporary history is he?

Take your pick, from the worlds honors question to the weight division question and anything in between.

What is a champion?
What is an authority?
What does p4p mean?
What is the colored title?
What does lineal mean?




Pick a subject you are willing to debate and I'll be just as responsive as I have been. It is me in the vulnerable position. I just told you, you, nor the men you claim know a thing or two, don't know **** about boxing history. Pick your best subject you are most sure is absolutely the truth and there's no way I'm going to find a primary account that says otherwise.




How many books about Greb claimed Greb never drew the colorline? That explains why y'all cried so much when I posted a primary quoting Greb as drawing the colorline. If you were not so invested in the half assed history you pay for ... ffs ... then it wouldn't be so traumatic to learn anything not widely known. Likewise, there is no such thing as uncomfortable history for an academic. I don't care if John L fought mostly mixed fights. I do not care if p4p is really just a SRR sales blueprint. These issues you lot care so much about because you were deceived into it. You so called historians included.

 

The goal posts haven't changed, you just keep missing.

What is it you feel Adam has spread misinformation about and do you have proof?

 

luft, what in the flying *bleep* are you two yammering on about? Lol

 

He said Adam Pollack was spreading misinformation, i just wanted to know what misinformation was being spread and what proof he has, but he keeps going off on strange tangents.

 

Nice way of reframing your attempt at asking the same question until you get a different answer like a child.

There is nothing weird about any of these posts except your flirtation. The only thing difficult to follow here, if any, are the typographical errors we both commit.

I said the entire history of boxing historians has been corrupted by the unchecked works of Nat Fleischer and cited an instance where even modern writers have failed to check the work before reprinting it.

What's really interesting is first you claim weird but not the entire post, just the bit about Adam. Then it became confusing for you, again not the entire post, just the bit about Adam. When pressed why such interest in Adam given I'm tearing down the entire historical narrative, you say you don't care who I talk about and then proceed to present a mentality that can not understand any criticisms for Mr. Pollack.

If anything, your stalling me on Adam over and over again has just forced me to show the overprotective goon squad fandom aspect of my original criticism in full effect

Hmmm


And you continue to go in circles like as if you do this man a favor.

You want an exact instance to harp on and pick apart? You want something on the nose? How about this:

Here's Adam's book on Sully:
https://www.amazon.com/John-L-Sullivan-Heavyweight-Champion/dp/078642558X?ref_=ast_author_dp

You're welcome Adam

Here's the sales pitch:

"Essentially the last of the bare-knuckle heavyweight champions, John L. Sullivan was instrumental in the acceptance of gloved fighting. His charisma and popular appeal during this transitional period contributed greatly to making boxing a nationally popular, "legitimate" sport. Sullivan became boxing's first superstar and arguably the first of any sport.

From his first match in the late 1870s through his final championship fight in 1892, this biography contains a thoroughly researched, detailed accounting of John L. Sullivan's boxing career. With special attention to the 1880s, the decade during which Sullivan came to prominence, it follows Sullivan's skill development and discusses his opponents and fights in detail, providing various viewpoints of a single event. Beginning with a discussion of early boxing practices, the sport itself is placed within sociological, legal and historical contexts including anti-prize fighting laws and the so-called "color line." A complete record of Sullivan's career is also included."

Not alternations made whatsoever

Seems fine right? Nothing controversial here. "Essentially the last of the bare-knuckle heavyweight champion ... and the so-called "color line.""

Essentially the last of the bare knuckle heavyweight champions. No so called needed I guess.

and the so called "color line" ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Was so super hard to prove Pollack falls in line with Nat Fleischer's narrative. It's super hard to show he's taken an academic stance in a fan's debate and allowed his research to be used like ammo for the aforementioned shaming all into agreeing with what is essentially one man's perspective on the time. Super hard to show the way he frames storytelling was lifted by a latent racist. So hard all I had to do was search Amazon, click the first book, and copy the sales pitch for it. Wow zinger boy-o you showed me!

Likewise, super hard, given your historians frame like that, to figure out why the entire forum cries when Greb drew the color line. He just missed that when writing his 3 book series on Dempsey is all. Has nothing to do with an even older corruption or Adam's quality of research. You can write books and miss something as glaring as that and still be the authority so long as little children who call themselves grown have ammo for their cute who is the most knowledgeable know-nothing fights.



Cue luf is confused and struggling to understand basic English. It's been such a super impressive and beneficial tactic so far.



DEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZ NNNNUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTZZZZ all up in yer mouth homie.