How can anyone argue about Marciano not being elite?

But, but, but it's guaranteed to sate the need for attention and will also incite the usual players. If i was a mod i'd pull it lol

 

He was hardly "undefeated against the best contenders of the division", though.

 

Tua is much bigger, has a better chin ,is far stronger and hits way harder than any 185 pound man. Add to the fact Marciano is coming straight at him and it's a recipe for a brutal knockout.

 

Some freaks argue that Lennox was not an ATG. People will argue all kind of stupid shyte.

 

Marciano was absolutely elite. He wasn't close to being the GOAT as some of his most devoted acolytes try to argue.

 

Because head to head against other great heavy's he's in way over his head..I'm NOT disparaging Rocky, he had more grit, determination, and stamina in his hip pocket than Mike Tyson had in his whole body. But against Mike Tyson he's dynamited outta there inside 2
If you want to listen to an expert disparage Rocky listen to Emanual Steward who said quote", Marciano was short ,awkward and clumsy"

 

A fighter can ONLY be judged by what he accomplished in his time. All head to head is purely hypothetical. For example, I wouldn't put Rock against Lennox, but I have no doubt that with power in either fist and the stamina to throw 95 punches in the 15th round of a fight, he would be competitive against Liston or Holmes.

All hypothetical. The only thing that counts in terms of greatness is accomplishment.

 

Much better defence than usually credited.
Elite stamina, great chin, serious power for his size and weight.

Rocco was an elite fighter, not an elite technician, but significantly competent enough to hold the greatest title in boxing and retire without a blemish on his record. You can argue H2H prowess but not argue with what he actually did in the ring.

 

My sentiment exactly.

 

Everyone knows that he was short, awkward and clumsy. He was also gritty, tough, brave and punched with genuine two fisted power.
If you look at virtually any fighters career you can pick out fights where they struggled against opponents they shouldn’t have. Somehow with Rocky it’s an indictment on his shortcomings as a fighter whereas for anyone else it’s an “off night”.
Marciano dominated his era and beat every single opponent he faced yet somehow he gets downgraded because he didn’t beat Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis who competed 30+ years after he retired FFS. It’s ridiculous.

 

So could you give examples about how Rocky "is not considered elite" and "downgraded"? No one has so far had him outside the top 10 so what does it mean not to give him his due? Outside the top 5? The top 3? Not having him as a GOAT?

Please respond or finally shut the **** up about how tejjible unfaij everyone is against Marciano.

 

Are you serious?

There’s a conga line of posters in here who disparage Marciano routinely. It’s either his, size, clumsiness, quality of opposition or the fact he didn’t beat modern sized heavyweights (who hardly existed in his era) which gets referenced routinely. Guys like Seamus for example always make snarky references about Marcianos shortcomings. You’ve seen this as well.

I don’t care where anyone rates Marciano. That garbage is for the birds. I get tired when a discussion about him descends into slighting him because someone doesn’t think he’d beat David ****ing Tua or some other unprovable or irrelevant crap like that.

 

Ok. So your problem is that he's not rated highly in fantasy h2h, which you don't care about anyways? He's not downgraded in the rankings by resume, which you care about, only in h2h guesses which you don't care about?

And that's a problem how?

 

He was elite

...for a small cruiser.

 

People are stupid if they don’t think Marciano was fundamentally sound LOL he was a short armed, rough fighter but he was optimised alright! RM was tricky, had a good defence and was rarely truly hit clean, he could do things in a hard to look at sort of way but I’d rather be taught how to box from his mould then say “pretty” fighters like Wilfredo Benitez? Or Muhammad Ali? Frazier was way less technically sound… but we never hear anything about that lol. When you go forward you will be hit, it’s just the way it is Carmen Basilio was immensely skilled but he got hit quite a bit but he did his best to mitigate it despite his aggression. There is a reason James Toney watched Marciano to learn some moves.