How can anyone think Marquez won the 1st fight with Pac by a wide margin?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by horst, Apr 28, 2010.


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  1. horst

    horst Guest

    This thread is in response to the many comments I see on here like this:

    The 'he' referred to being Juan Manuel Marquez of course.

    Now, to start with, here is my scorecard for Pac and JMM's first fight:


    R1: Pac 10-6 (clear)
    R2: Pac 10-9 (clear)
    R3: JMM 10-9 (clear)
    R4: JMM 10-9 (clear)
    R5: JMM 10-9 (clear)
    R6: JMM 10-9 (clear)
    R7: 10-10 (could have been a Pac round, but have gone with draw)
    R8: 10-10 (definitely an even round)
    R9: Pac 10-9 (close)
    R10: Pac 10-9 (clear)
    R11: JMM 10-9 (clear)
    R12: Pac 10-9 (clear)
    TOTAL - Pac 115, Marquez 112


    I watched the fight twice, watched certain close rounds more than that, and feel certain that this is a solid card.

    However, boxing is not a science and I am not infallible, so I will make an example to prove the point:

    Some people may disagree with my scoring on certain rounds, but to be honest I really don't think there is much room for debate on the rounds that I have labelled clear:

    Pac: 1,2,10,12
    JMM: 3,4,5,6,11

    If you consider that round 1 must have been a 10-6 for Pacquiao, then how can anyone arrive at a wide victory for Marquez?? To me, it just doesn't add up at all. One 10-6 round plus three 10-9 rounds equals 7 points lost for JMM, so the highest score he can finish on is 113. How can JMM have won widely on the cards with a score of 113?

    If you eliminate my personal choices over the close rounds which I either gave as a draw or to Pac, and give all of these rounds to JMM other than the four rounds which Pac surely won (1,2,10,12), then the scorecard still only comes to 113-112 for Marquez:

    R1: Pac 10-6
    R2: Pac 10-9
    R3: JMM 10-9
    R4: JMM 10-9
    R5: JMM 10-9
    R6: JMM 10-9
    R7: JMM 10-9
    R8: JMM 10-9
    R9: JMM 10-9
    R10: Pac 10-9
    R11: JMM 10-9
    R12: Pac 10-9
    Total - Pac 112, Marquez 113


    How that one judge could arrive at a 115-110 scorecard for Marquez is ****ing bizarre. I can't work out how the hell he came up with that one!
     
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    #1
  2. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    Scoring a boxing match is very subjective. I don't understand why people take it so personally when people disaggree witht their scorecards. I haven't watched that fight in a while, but I do remember scoring 8 or 9 rounds for Marquez. Your scorecards for these fights will depend, many times, on personal bias and what aspect of the sport you emphasize when scoring.
     
    BigReg, Apr 28, 2010
    BigReg, Apr 28, 2010
    #2
  3. J.R.

    J.R. No Mames Guey Full Member

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    I had the fight dead even so I was alright with the official result. It was a strange scorecard based on the 3 klnockdowns in the first round. Basically, I think I gave Marquez 8 or 9 rounds, Pac about 3, and I also had an even round in there somewhere. Oooor something like that.

    I remember the scorecards after that fight were all over the ****ing place mainly by casual fans who can't score a fight for ****. Many had it wide for Marquez, others had it wide for Manny. Like I said, all over the place.... but considering how varied the scoring was and how split the opinions were on this fight, I think a draw in the end was the most fair result.
     
    J.R., Apr 28, 2010
    J.R., Apr 28, 2010
    #3
  4. Kush

    Kush Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    116-112 Marquez
     
    Kush, Apr 28, 2010
    Kush, Apr 28, 2010
    #4
  5. Boom_Boom

    Boom_Boom R.I.P Boxing 6/9/12 Full Member

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    114-111 Pacquiao
     
    Boom_Boom, Apr 28, 2010
    Boom_Boom, Apr 28, 2010
    #5
  6. welb

    welb Active Member Full Member

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    Jan 11, 2009
    :rofl
     
    welb, Apr 28, 2010
    welb, Apr 28, 2010
    #6
  7. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I had Marquez winning by 2 or 3. I don't think he won by a wide margin, I think what people might mean when they say that is that he dominated the number of rounds regardless of the point system and even so should have come out on top, like a lot of the experts assert.
     
    Bogotazo, Apr 28, 2010
    Bogotazo, Apr 28, 2010
    #7
  8. jimmie

    jimmie Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I had him winning by 3-4 points. After the 1st round I felt JMM wasnt so much dominant but in clear control he landed most of the clean and effective punches.
     
    jimmie, Apr 28, 2010
    jimmie, Apr 28, 2010
    #8
  9. El Intocable

    El Intocable Guest

    Get of the pipe.
     
    El Intocable, Apr 28, 2010
    El Intocable, Apr 28, 2010
    #9
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    Who's taking anything personally gimp?? It's standard and interesting ESB debate to discuss the scoring of controversial fights.

    If you are a boxing fan and not a boxer fan, you should be able to score a fight without allowing bias to cloud your judgement. If you think Marquez won 9 rounds of that fight, I'd suggest that your own biases were indeed affecting you. Either that or you made some misjudgements.
     
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    #10
  11. horst

    horst Guest

    Do you have the scorecard to back this up???



    I doubt it, as it's a dog****, unjustifiable score.
     
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    #11
  12. horst

    horst Guest

    I'd draw you guys' attention to part of my opening post:


    I can't envisage how Marquez can have got a higher score than a 113. If you think JMM won by 3 or 4 points, then that would mean Pacquiao had got a 110 or a 109? I just can't see how that works out at all dudes.
     
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    #12
  13. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW ESB Official Gif Poster Full Member

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    Close bout. After the first round Marquez obviously had to scrape back...it could have went either way, but I think a draw was about right.
    I had Marquez winning the second bout though by maybe 1 or 2 rounds.
     
    AnthonyW, Apr 28, 2010
    AnthonyW, Apr 28, 2010
    #13
  14. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    To be honest, you seem to take a lot of things personally, even posts that aren't even directed at you. Anyway, I didn't make any misjudgements. It's boxing, scoring a fight is very subjective. All 3 judges in this fight had 3 completely different scorecards. That should tell you something right there. Of course, some people think that the subjective nature in which they score a fight is actually objective. Because of this, they assume that people who dissagree with them don't know what they're talking about; even if many others share the same opinion.
     
    BigReg, Apr 28, 2010
    BigReg, Apr 28, 2010
    #14
  15. horst

    horst Guest

    You may perceive me as taking things personally when it comes to your posts, but that's because I don't respect you as a poster and like to point out when I believe you are behaving like a spineless snake.

    The rest of your post is rather dull, so I won't bother addressing it. I have no quarrel with anyone who scores the fight in a different way from me, but as I have presented my scorecard, I would invite anyone else to do the same so we can compare and discuss the fight and certain key rounds.

    If you have an opinion on this matter, you can respond directly to this point:

    If you don't have an opinion on this, you may leave?
     
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    horst, Apr 28, 2010
    #15
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