How can Klitshcko's NOT be in the top 3 P4P?

How do you even know who's black on here?

 

Here's another thing I wanted to add to this whole thing. Some people mistake criticism for hate. I don't see the people (like myself) who criticize the K2 for their obvious troublesome negotiations, their lack of charima etc as hating the K2 brothers actually if you read most post here most give them credit for what they have accomplished but are still realistic and understand that this is a weak era, that they haven't actually fought the best (Haye, Solis, each other, Povetkin, Bosty, Adamek). I don't think taking a realistic, logical look at the K2 brothers is hate.

 

we all know that the main reason is because they are not american

 

And how many of these solid heavyweights have the Klitschko's beaten? And no, I'm not saying they're ducking anyone.

 

I agree. And that klind of emphasises my point. Historically, CW's have never fared well in the HW division. Yet today, we have a couple.

 

Are you talking about the 37 year old Wright that hadn't fought for 21 months and he last fight was at 170 (he fought Williams at 160)? Wright was a good fighter but not when he fought Williams.

Are you talking about the Cintron fight where he jumped out of the ring in the 4th?

I'll give you Margarito.

Chagaev was no. 3 at HW, undefeated, was the first man to beat Valuev and the real WBA champion.

Chambers is a skilled, fast HW.

Thompson was also a good fighter.

Ibragimov was an undefeated skilled southpaw.

Brock undefeated

You can add to that list Byrd, Peter (first fight).

As records go Wlad > Williams.

 

Holyfield was CW. He then moved to one of the best eras in HW (as Ring/americans tell us) and became the champ.

 

He was an ATG. Is David Haye?

 

He's an ATG because he did that. If Haye will became the champ at HW yes, he will be an ATG.

 

I am aware of that. I didn't say NONE have ever. But that's one...

 

He's an ATG becuase of his fights at HW as well. His championship reigns. Not just because he moved up.

Haye has virtually NO CHANCE to come close to doing what Holy did. Shoot, Haye already shamelessly ducked the top two HW's after talking mad ****.

 

First of all, Chagaev barely allegedly "won" against Valuev. He used the brilliant AMATEUR tactics of standing right in front of his opponent, getting his guard punched in, and then shooting in with a predictable left straight that often missed the very slow to move Valuev. The fact is, Chagaev is a very average athlete with very average qualities, and he allegedly "won" (more like a draw), against a very slow opponent. He had absolutely NO chance against Klitschko implementing that type of outside strategy. NONE whatsoever. Who on his resume has he even beat?

You can see this brilliant display of boxing tactis of getting repeatedly punched in the face and responding with lunging, missing left hands, or pitty patty arm punches to the body.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb21CGyiXL8&feature=related[/ame]

It's pretty easy to see from that clip that Klitschko, who hits much more compact, has better speed, and faster body movement than Valuev, was going to easily dominate Chagaev who again is very average.

If you want to see how to OUTBOX Valuev, a strategy which Chagaev (The White Tyson ), used against Valuev and Klitschko, this is how you do it.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGtoC1W6REU&feature=related[/ame]

You see how Haye, an easily ABOVE average athlete with ABOVE average speed and power and SKILLS, used lateral movement and upperbody movement to almost completely shut down Valuev's offense, and avoid only but MAYBE a handful of nothing punches the ENTIRE fight, while simeltaneously countering with HARD HITTING punches that looked to HURT his man. I didn't see Haye gettin his head pushed back like Chagaev, and I actually saw Valuev's head get turned, UNLIKE the fight with Chagaev.

And then you bring up Chambers.



I'll let you see what I'm laughing at.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC9z4NFa7_Q&feature=related[/ame]

Look at how Chambers uses his Ali like movement by standing right in front of Klitschko, maybe the biggest puncher at heavyweight, and doing nothing lateral at all. Amazing, isn't it. Or even better his tactics of standing straight up and down, right at the end of Klitschko's punches, squared up with his gloves in the air, occasionaly lunging foward with a weak right hand. Wow....it's like I'm watching Jersey Joe Walcott in the ring. What a ****in skilled tactician. AMAZING.

Brilliant ****in tactics Chambers.

And Tony Thompson. With his impressive record of wins over the amazing Cliff Couser and Luan Krasniqi, and don't forget ol' Onebo Maxim. Tony, despite his inability to go to the body despite being the taller man, his straight up and down style, still managed to make it a fight against Klitschko, despite having no inclination to get punched, no aggression, and no idea how to fight other than using his height which he didn't have as a luxury in this fight.

Sultan Ibraginov actually is skilled. And he managed to bring his mighty 20 fight record into his fight against Klitschko and because he had a reputation for having a modicum of power, and a little bit of defense, made Klitschko look so bad that he was banned from HBO for the rest of his career.

And it's great that you mention the ultra skilled and ultra fast Sam Peter. Ranked high for his PFP skills. It's no wonder he had Klitschko on the mat 3 times, it was due to his massive advantage in boxing IQ and skills, certainly not because of Klitschko's strong chin. Then he fights him again after Vitali does a paint job on him, and garbage Chambers beats him. Excellent job, Wlad.

What a spectacular resume. Certainly better than Paul Williams.'

 

Basically because there are several fighters who are more versatile, fight better competition and do it without the physical advantages the Klitschko's have.

Wlad is dominating a weak division with a style that, whilst very effective, doesn't show off the kind of skill-set synonymous with a top p4p fighter. He doesn't throw combinations, body shots, or anything much apart from a jab and straight right. He's an excellent fighter but there's no way he deserves to be in the top 3. I wouldn't argue with him being just inside the top 10.

Vitali isn't on there because, like his brother, he doesn't have strong competition and he also has great physical advantages over all his opponents. That's not his fault but it does make it hard to justify having him in the top 10.

 

Oh again the "Heavyweight division is weak" diatribe. Really funny, when Tyson was knocking out bums in the 80s it was a fantastic division, right? Then when he finally went against a relatively good fighter in Douglas he was put to sleep but as the Tyson fanboys love to tell us he "did not train" for the fight. The reality of the matter is the division is stronger than in the 80s for example. Give the Klitsckos some f***ing credit they cleaned the division and scared the **** of otherwise good fighters like Haye or Povetkin.

 

LMAO! exactly! you just assume everyone that hates him is black? here in america all the people that know who the klitschkos are (majority white) think they're the most boring fighters ever. so so much for that outlandish assumption, you dont have to be black to be bored of a 12 round jab, jab, grab, fest.