How can u rank Floyd higher all-time p4p when Pac has better resume & achievements?

:good

 

Floyd beat a prime fighter in Corrales at 130, he was a prime fighter there and Hernandez for the title. He fought the #1 at lightweight twice in his first fights at 135. The Gatti fight and some of 2/3 fights before that were decent fights. The WBC title that he gained of Gatti was meaningless as the linear and undisputed champion at that weight was Kostya Tszyu.

I do credit Floyd for fighting Judah and the linear champion at 147 before facing DLH and Hatton. If Floyd had beaten Hatton at 140, that, imo, would have made his victory more meaningful imo. Floyd has a great resume imo, only a shame about the middle part. Had Kostya Tszyu been there that might have made a difference to me.

Pacquiao has a better resume imo. Supposedly (I don't know), linear champion at 116 (or at least #1). At 122 he beat Ledwaba and was ranked #1 by the Ring when he moved up to face Barrera for the linear title at 126. He then attempted to unify the titles at 126 by facing Marquez. He then faced the undisputed and linear champion at 130 in Morales and lost.

He later KOs Morales, something considered unfathomable during that time, twice. He then wins the linear title at 130 by beating Marquez in there second meeting. He picks up the WBC belt at 135 and then beats DLH, a guy considered way too big and way above his natural weight class at 147 and defeats the undisputed and linear champion at 140 (Hatton) in brutalising fashion.

I think the depth in Pacquiao's resumé is remarkable at this point, his filler fights also have been on average better than Mayweather imo. Pacquiao has also jumped more weight classes. Mayweather is the naturally bigger fighter, both started young, but Mayweather started at featherweight 130 and Pacquiao at 116. The only blimp and missed opportunity of Pacquiao was to unify the 135 titles by fighting Nate Campbell. Otherwise, storybook.

 

No it does not

Toney and Hopkins where both ATG fighters, the win over ruiz while he is **** fighter is massive for his resume. Then you add good wins like mccallum, tarver, hill, griffin, gonzalez and woods.

Hopkins is great and his longevity is amazing however the names they both beat, roy's is better IMO

 

Manny ranks higher now but it's not the end with Mayweather announcing a return. A good way to change it for Mayweather is to fight and beat Pacquiao, if Pacquiao wins of course he secures it and for good.

 

I understand, I just see it as more important than you.

As an example, you just gave that Kessler was a "very good champion" I agree, but that is pretty much a subjective opinion as Kesslers best win is either over Mundine who has done nothing or Andrade who's only other performence of note was losing valiantly to Bute.

So playing devils advocate, Kessler is not a good fighter, therefore you cannot rate Calzaghe's achivements as highly. Due to the fact that his second best win is against a fighter who is judged almost wholly on skillset and his best "win" is highly disputable.

So what I am saying is that to judge a fighters resume you have to make a subjective opinion on the quality fighters he faced and infact how good they were at the time.

 

I wasnt trying to catch you out at all with my first question. You made a point that contradicted your previous stance and i was asking why, be it mistake or deliberate. Then you acted like an obtuse *****. Thats when I tried.


****'s on harsh, probably, but it's superior. Your main reason for ranking him higher than Hop was on his freakish ability, his H2H ability, which you rank as one of the best ever.

Then on this thread you say we have to completley disregard H2H or skillset when compiling a list, and focus on resume and weight jumping. So Ruiz is the reason Roy is ranked above Hop?. If so, **** that.

I was not trying to catch you out or any other playground ****. I was asking a question. If you dont want asked questions about threads or posts you make, then dont make them. No fail here. You see?

 

Hop wasnt even rated in the top 6 at MW at the time of that fight. He was 6 years away from the fighter we know today so dont give me that. Watch the fight with Baptist, then watch the fight with Tito. 2 Completley different animals. Nowhere near an ATG.

Toney was highly rated but had been moving divisions for 18 months and hadnt looked anything near the Toney of 91-92. But he was still rated so fair do's. An ATG


A 40 yr old McCallum at LH, Woods,Tarver,Griffin and Gonzalez do not compare with Winky,Tito,ODLH,Johnson,Tarver,Pavlik. And going life and death with Taylor and Calzaghe. Hop easily has the best resume. The achievement of becoming HW champ is superb, but there is a half dozen LH's and Cruiser's who would have done that. Ruiz is awful.

 

You underrate the hell out of the hopkins that roy beat,yes he wasn't as clever a fighter as he would become but he was at his physical peak and was still a top fighter, and if you are using that excuse to downplay that win for jones do the same up for johnson on hopkins resume, take de la hoya away as well seeing as he did **** all at 160 and had no business there.

Ruiz is awful and i am sure that half a dozen LH and crusier could have done it, but jones is an ex middleweight champion and a natural super middle, that's why it is special. If hopkins had beat him then i'm sure you would be shouting about how great a win it is. Roy resume is better, he beat better fighters and was a better fighter in my opinion.

 

Not hard was it. Much better answer which could have been given after my first question instead of ...atsch They've fought.


It was the failure in explaining yourself when putting Jones above Hop, not what you wrote in this thread that caused my confusion. You seemed to put a huge empahsis on Roy's H2H ability when we discussed this before, but discount it here for Mayweather, that was all. No agenda.


For what it's worth if i was to do a P4P all time list im confident Manny would be ahead of Floyd, I just wouldnt discount H2H conjecture or skillset because they hadnt met. Seems strange

 

I agree with where you place his peak.

But it's Barkley,Littles and Williams. Hardly awe inspiring. And he was fluctuating badly in this period. My point was it isnt as good as beating the 91-2 Toney at MW, I wasnt saying it's rubbish or shouldnt be given big credit for. Just not Peak prime brilliant JT.


The ****'s on remark was a bit full on, I dont see it as a big a gulf as what that sounds like, but i do view Hop's as superior. And i couldnt be persuaded otherwise. As solid as Sweet Pea is. Have to disagree strongly.