*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

According to those in the camp, Tyson starved himself in the weeks before the fight because he was undertrained and overfat. Thus, the good appearances and weight, but his performance is obviously lacking. His training camp was horribly lackadaisical and unfocussed. What does this mean for me? Tyson had lost the championship mentality. Douglas arrived at the right time, in an rare, focussed state of mind, and took advantage. He deserves all the kudos.

Comparing this version to the best of Tyson, I would say about 75%.

 

I would say he was at about 80% of himself and Douglas fought out of his mind..
Tyson was not motivated at all for the fight, he lacked fire, intensity and focus all things which he had at his best. This Tyson was not the Tyson who wasted Berbick or Biggs or Thomas, this man though still very tough and a good fighter just went through the motions.. Once he realized he was in a fight and had to reach down I think the fact that he didn't train as intensely as for some of his other fights he didn't find much.. Though after the knockdown in the 8th, he had some fire and urgency when he came out for the 9th but Buster wouldn't be denied and the 9th turned out to be the best back and forth round of the fight.. And then Buster closed the door in the 10th, I wish Mike could have gotten a rematch at some point becasue I would like to have seen how he would have fought Douglas the second time around, would he go all out early and go for the KO or would he fight different based on the ass kicking Douglas gave him in the first fight, sadly we will never know...

 

I think Tyson was the same guy in tokyo as he had been for berbick, thomas and biggs but douglas on this night was beter than all three. Tyson said he trained least of all for tucker and he was heavier for him than against douglas. according to mike he had the clap for all of those fights. he says a lot of things but he looked in shape and took a beating the way only an a motivated, trained fighter could.

this is a good point. with hindsight douglas proved he never could "get up" for another fight after this one big win so tyson, or indeed any driven contender would have beat buster in his next fight. for douglas it was a one fight deal. it wasnt his nature to try that hard more than once. The guy had tread water for a lot of years and finaly got his shot, there wasnt much in the tank after that.

 

Nonsense

 

how good were berbick, thomas and biggs when tyson fought them? thomas was poor against berbick a guy who had already blew his chances at world level years before. biggs? according to the duvas biggs was a loose cannon at that time and already on route to self destruction.

 

No doubt that Douglas fought a great fight but to say Tyson was the same in 1990 as he was pre Bruno is just wrong and you know it. His life was literally unraveling all around him ffs

 

his life was but when the bell went he knew he had to fight. when his life was unraveling he turned to his training. wasnt his life unraveling when cus died? or when his mother died? or when atlas put a gun to his head? Tysons life unraveled when he was born and it never stopped unraveling.

Tyson had been programmed to fight like a pro from age 11 and was in better shape against buster than he had been against tucker. tyson had always had the best money could buy so far in his career. tyson had it all his own way professionally. the guy was ready and motivated.
Things always look great when it goes your way.

 

So then are you saying that no version of Tyson would ever be able to beat that Douglas on that night? I agree that on that night Douglas was damn good but I still believe a peak Mike could have beat him.. I think you are claiming that this Mike was just as good as the Mike of previous years correct? And if that is what you are saying then I guess that answers my question... But let me know your thoughts anyway, thanks :good

 

Yes I think during that period Tyson was always the same man. a young man.

I think Tyson of the Tokyo night would have beat the Douglas who Tony tucker beat. Tyson of the Ruddock fights would have KO'd the Douglas who evander holyfeild beat so yes there are versions of douglas who tyson could beat. just not the one he fought in Tokyo because of the resistance buster gave him and the puzzle he set him.

IMO the more success Tyson had in a fight the better he would get but in a competitive situation the progress was stunted and he did not get out of the blocks. He could not "carry on regardless" if something was coming back at him that he had no control over, becoming ordinary. The same resistance applied in an earlier great performance would have produced the same version of tyson that douglas met.

Tyson did not adapt in that fight because it was too early a stage of his development to dig deep and trade because he did not have deep water experience to draw upon. Later, tyson had some shaky moments with Ruddock that he overcame where he was able to punch his way out of trouble but you could argue Ruddock was easier to hit. later still (against holyfeild) a more mature tyson showed that even when he had been there before he did not have it in him to go there.

 

Foreman Hook is a troll......


But here goes...I think Tyson was about 80% of his best that night, but he was beaten by a more focused, motivated boxer on the night... Thanks

 

Out of shape guys cannot score knockouts, this is when I stopped taking your sort seriously.

 

Tyson looked completely lethargic in that fight, even Sugar Ray commented on this.
Tyson was throwing one sloppy punch at a time while Douglas was moving about throwing 3s and 4s. It was Tysons chin and heart which kept him in the fight till the final round. Any other lesser fighter would have been Kod or given up.
Tyson looked **** which made Buster look even better. I give Tyson the benefit of the doubt as he beat fighters much better than Douglas, and what did Douglas ever do before or after this fight? It was a fluke fight and the stars aligned for BD for one night.

Tyson was losing on the scorecards...what was his plan B? a knockout, whcih he nearly got in round 9. What else was Tyson was supposed to do? The rope a dope????
Tyson was in his prime still, but he wasnt at his peak, his skills had evidently declined since parting with Kevin Rooney and co, these are the people that MADE Mike Tyson.

 

Taken from Peter Hellers autobiography TYSON

"In Tokyo, Tysons sparring sessions were erratic. He reportedly skipped a week of boxing, some of his other sessions were described as sluggish, he was said to be overweight, and his trainer, Aaron Snowell, admitted Tyson was eating just one meal a day - soup and salad- to take the weight off. This is not the way for a 220 pound heavyweight to maintain his strength, but the professional discipline instilled by Kevin rooney and Steve Lott was obviously missing from the training camp. Sports headlines were made a few weeks before the fight when former champion Greg Page, working as a Tyson sparring partner, dropped Tyson with a solid shot to the head."

Also on a documentary i used to have on video called Baddest Man On The Planet. Bill Cayton commented and said he believed he (Tyson) starved himself into weakness to make the fight. Apparently Cus used to tell Tyson all the time about, how heavyweights can come in grossly out of shape because they dont have to make weight and Tyson never wanted to look like that, so he decided to starve himself.

Make of that what you may

 

He should have trained right.
If he needs to be at his best to stand a chance against Douglas, he shouldn't have been so undisciplined. He believed his own hype. Some people still do.

 

I agree.
"How dare they challenge me, with their primitive skills, their just as good as dead"

Even after the Bruno fight, people commented that on a different night, againts a different fighter, Tyson might not have been so lucky. They stated that he would need Kevin Rooneys experience and advice if he got into a long drawn out war.

The original plan was to "punish" Rooney by letting him miss the Bruno fight and then let him back into camp aferwards.