*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

It's ironic, because in 1987 they were voices in the press who wondered whether Kevin Rooney knew enough to fully develop Tyson.
But obviously they weren't suggesting Tyson replace him with complete clowns - they were thinking more along the lines of an Eddie Futch !

 

Futch probably would have walked out on him ala Bowe.

Tyson wanted Yes men, not people who were going to boss him about. Ironically it was the father type figures which really helped him Cus, Jacobs etc.

Rooney did a great job, the diferences is there to see. Look at Tysons pre and post Rooney.

This is where the "had Cus lived..." comes into play. Rooney did a great job with Tysons career, but he was no Cus Damato, so one can only wonder what Cus could have done.

If Tyson had turned pro without the Rooney/Cus style of teaching, ive always felt Tyson would just have been the fighter he was in 89-92. A face first brawler with a good punch and a good chin.
The difference between Cus teachings and Tysons own natural style is evident

 

Bull****. I dont care how good you are. You come in against a well schooled 230 plus fighter unmotivated and undertrained youre going to get your ass handed to you. I dont care if it was Joe Louis Ali or Foreman, it would have happened to any of them.
Douglas was not the complete piece of **** youre trying to make him out to be, he was a solid guy when he was in shape and you know it. Tyson didnt have to be at his best to beat him, but he certainly had to be better prepared then he was. It could have been any number of fighters that Tyson had already beaten, take Tyson out that night.

 

The problem with Rooney was he probably didn't know any more than Tyson, he just had to keep drilling what he knew about the Cus style into Tyson. It was a programme, but probably not complete.
Whether he could develop him further is doubtful.

I believe Teddy Atlas was actually Tyson's main trainer with Cus for most of those early years.
And the thing is, Atlas was the first to have to go for not being a "yes man" !

 

Whoa, calm down.
Did I say something wrong ? :rofl

 

You only have to look at how much bullsh*t Atlas comes out with nowadays, not about Tyson, but just Boxing in general....you really want this guy in your corner????

True, Rooney just repeated what he knew from Cus...but HEY it worked, Minus Rooney from the equation and 2 fights later Tyson is getting his ass handed to him. Its hard to ignore the effect Rooney had in Tysons corner, imcompetent or not.

Tyson didnt really need developing, he was doing well for himself. Holyfield and Bowe (With Futch) would have proved a challenge, Lewis was no different to all the other guys he was fighting. Other than that there was no on the Horizon that could really test Tyson.

 

my sort? you think untrained guys can walk through the rounds of punishment Tyson endured?

 

Rooney was more of a professional than Atlas was. He knew more about boxing than Atlas did. He trained with D' Amato longer than Atlas did.

Rooney was a young trainer but he knew the Damato style very well and the importance of staying in top shape for all fights. I cant think of another trainer at that time that would have done better with Tyson. People did question Rooney's credentials, but he was always giving pretty sound advice in the corner, and his fighter was taking out all the great trainers fighters easily, so having Tyson in top shape and following the principles of the D'amato style was good enough to beat them all.
If Tyson wasnt getting the right answers in the corner, a lot of those guys Tyson faced would have been able to exploit him.

 

Good point.

True enough. :good

 

Yeah Tyson was in top shape and ready to go. That was Cliff Couser in that video with Greg Page, not Tyson.

 

True whats overlooked is that Tyson didnt just come into the ring against a "bum". Douglas always had the right style to beat Tyson and Tyson probably needed to train harder for this fight than any other fight in his life.

Also, Mcall warned Tyson about Douglas, to which Tyson just laughed.
Whats sometimes ignored is that Douglas beat Berbick, Mcall and Page (3 of Tysons sparring partners) He was also beating Tucker (Who gave Tyson his toughest fight) until he gassed. He had just lost his mother and also had a stylistic advantage over Tyson, taller with a longer reach. Adding all these together, you can see Tyson was in for a tough night.

Tyson coming into the ring undertrained against Douglas Is like a guy with a glass jaw fighting with his hands down against a monster puncher.

 

Thats what seperates ATGs from normal fighters.

If Tyson was a lesser fighter, he would have been out of there earlier. This fight shows his heart, determination and chin. He was losing heavily and was still looking for an answer (whcih he found in round 9)

Although Douglas was winning the fight, even in round 10-11 it was Tyson who was pushing forward looking for the punch to end it.

The look on Tysons face after the fight, when hes walking off says it all. He knew he shuld have trained harder and Douglas got lucky.

 

there is far too much emphasis on Tyson’s preparations and corner as an excuse for how he performed against douglas.

What about when a young Joe Louis was beaten by max schmeling? nobody is questioning the credentials of jack Blackburn in Louis’s corner.

The schmeling loss is explained by the strategic plans employed by the more experienced German. surly its the same with douglas?

 

Physical Tyson was still in his prime ... however, he was completely distracted, unmotivated and had regressed as a fighter ... post Rooney he started to become a one shot head hunter and his performances show it ... for Douglas he entered the ring poorly prepared and got the shock of his life ...

 

he still needed the wind and to have trained to gut it through the way that he did. no way even an all time great could walk off the street and do that. Tyson trained hard for douglas, harder than he had against tucker. Tysons life was always unraveling but he still went to the gym and trained like a monk.