*How close in Percentage-Terms was Tyson to PEAK/BEST when he KTFO by Bummy Douglas?*

If Marciano started pro at 19, given his style, he would not have made it to 30. As it was he debuted in 1947 started fighting live bodies in 1950 and limped out in 1955 with back to back underwhelming victories. I am not so sure about him not being done by 24 if he had started at 19.

Tyson started in 1985 and was fighting decent opposition by the end of that year, ex-champs by early 86 and in late 86 won a belt 20 months after turning pro, after which he went through 8 more current, ex or future belt holders. Quite a different career arc, I would say.

 

But non of the guys Tyson face, pre Douglas didnt give Mike any wars.

Marciano won the title from Walcott in a war, had 2 back to back wars with Charles, and retire after a sort of easy win over Moore.

Tyson didnt face any one that push him like the Rock did. I think had Marciano won the title around 21, He would perhaps have gone though the works like he did in his late 20's early 30's, and had more steam left for the coming of Liston. I think Marciano would have made it to 30, which he DID in real life.

 

im not saying tyson was not a great fighter but BEFORE trevor berbick what ring magazine rated fighter did tyson fight?

You cant call out marciano when he faced 4 rated contenders to get his shot.

 

Had tyson been imprisoned in the build up to the douglas fight he'd almost certainly be seen as a top ten atg.

The only *greats* around in his era were holmes and spinks and he dusted those. Losing to someone of douglas's calibre and never rematching nor really recovering is is what damages tyson's legacy.

Had he had his career exactly as he did apart from that douglas loss and retiring after lewis, he gets remembered a lot higher only ever losing to atg's.

 

According to some people on here, Tyson hadnt trained hard for the Tucker fight?

Its true Tysons training was always erratic before the Rooney departure, but if anyone here has ever laced gloves up, you cant keep skipping training because it will catch up with you sooner or later.
He fought Tucker in 87 and Douglas in 90, 3 years of not training hard is going to catch up with. Whether your Mike Tyson or superman.

There are many reports whcih stated that Tyson was sabotaging his own reign, this eventually caught up with him in 1990

However if you compare Tyson from the Tucker fight to the Douglas fights, thats 2 totally different fighters, anyone who thinks he was the same in both fights either needs to keep off the crack or stop talking out of his a$$

 

Well, one thing's for sure:

Douglas beat a better version of Tyson than Holyfield did and a much, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better version than Lennox ********* did.

 

Im still waiting for evidence that Tyson didnt train hard for the Undisputed championship with Rooney training him.

 

The only "evidence" is form the movie TYSON (1995) The on starring Geroge C Scott And Michael Jai White, i blieve this is where certain people may have got their research from

 

I know Tyson screwed off a lot, but I would still think there is a benefit of Kevin Rooney making him go through the motions as opposed to Jay Bright and Aaron Snowell, but here we go, Choklab is correct. One thing that was consistent with Tyson is that he never gave any credit to Rooney after parting ways with him.

[url]http://books.google.com/books?id=4a8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=was+Tyson+prepared+for+Tucker&source=bl&ots=9ZOl0HRRXo&sig=_M2StjERZZ1cTSCnQI0kTMwSl_g&hl=en&ei=yvrkTavoCYr50gHfvvHqDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url]

 

Physically Tyson was peak, or very close to. But it was the mind set of both men going in to the fight that was the difference. Buster was absolutely superb that night.

 

Tyson was an a$$hole, plain and simple. He had the potential of being the GOAT (IMO), instead he screwed it up, he screwed up his whole life. Only now at the age of 45 hes finally realised and woken up.

He dumped everybody who cared for him and decided to go with the biggest leech in boxing and a couple of clowns whod never laced a pair of gloves. He then had the oppurtunity to rectify this after spending time in prison, instead he comes out a weaker self and jumps straight back into bed with Don King. The same Don King who comically handled Tysons money, anybody wondered why Tyson made upto £200 million before prison and came out broke?

And secondly why is it that after losing his title in 1990, Tyson was still nowhere near another title shot until he went into prison? Surely Don King could have got him a match with holyfield befor he went to prison?

 

King didnt want Tyson to fight Holyfield. He wanted him to fight guys he promoted so he could steal all the money. Tyson made so much money fighting guys like Ruddock, Tillman and Stewart, that King didnt even care about the titles at that point. It wasnt until Tyson forced King to make the Holyfield fight that King did it. Tyson was trying his hardest to leave King and go to Steve Wynn, and a lot of people think King set up Tyson with the whole Washington scandal.
It took King a long time to regain the fighters that held the titles, because he had a big bunch of bums lined up to fight Lewis Holyfield and Bowe and until they became mandatories noone wanted anything to do with King.

 

:deal This! I believe Tyson was still at or very close to his absolute physical peak. However in terms of training, trainer and preperation I don't believe he was the same guy. Tyson became much easier to hit, his head movement is almost nil, his work rate declined as did his his connection rate, he became more one dimensional in terms of head hunting rather than a concentrated assault, and now lacked the corner to not only get him prepared but to keep him focused and able to adjust in mid fight.

I checked 90% just because I can't totally excuse his out of ring decisions that were affecting his in ring performance....But I am not sure that 90% is accurate either.

 

The Bruno and Douglas fights were probably the worst performances. I'm not sure which fight he looked worse. Tyson was in the habit of fighting close to 4 fights per year, 4 in 1987 and then 3 fights in the top half of 1988. He lost tons of momentum with all the cancellations and changes.

Tyson hated leaving the country to fight and was originally slated for fights with Bruno in England, then Damiani in Italy, Rodrigues in Brazil, and the possibility of fighting Ruddock in Canada. Cayton had it mapped out for him, and I'm sure their icy relationship had a lot to do with the outcome of the original team. We all know the story after that...

Pisses me off that people think Tyson looked the same throughout his fights leading up to Douglas. If he didn't train hard for Tucker he still had his team around him and was so active that he couldn't balloon up between fights. A world of difference against Douglas. It's quite evident.

 

Douglas wasn't a "bum" or "journeyman" at all around the late 80's up until Tokyo. He was a very inconsistent contender that had talent but was too lazy. People forget that he beat Mccall and gave Tucker some problems before he beat Tyson. I fault Tyson for losing to him but im sure there have been worse losses from other prime-near prime great fighters. IMO Tyson's prime was 86-88 because that's when he look his best in most of his fights. Battering Pinklon, Berbick, Biggs, and outpointing the spoling Tucker are sactually some of my fav Tyson performances when he fought in that time. I don't think Tyson was prime in '90 but Tyson definitely wasn't peak at all in Tokyo and anyone who believes that is deluding themselves.