I know the Ellis and Quarry fights erased his chances in that tournament, but in the late 60's Patterson was still a credible scalp to add to a resume... I recently did a Patterson/other 60's and 70's heavyweight marathon over a couple weeks... I came away from it seeing that Patterson was alot physically stronger than I previously thought, and the top of the heap over everyone not named Frazier or Ali. He manned Quarry around and won the first fight comfortably on my card, and also won the Ellis fight comfortably in my opinion. He also did the pushing around in the Bonavena fight... So why did this fight never come off? What happens if the meet in say '69 or '70? I believe Patterson wouldn't do worse than Ellis, and Frazier would have ground him down mid-late, but Floyd could have made it interesting given his sharp punching and versatility.
I'm sure there will be mixed responses regarding the outcome, the overwhelming majority of which will be in favor of Frazier, and all that feedback is welcome. My real question is, why it never came off? Patterson was still making noise in the division, was is strictly because he was on the wrong end of those decisions?
Patterson was 8 or 9 years older than Frazier . I think it's a good enough reason , although he was 10 years older than Quarry and they still fought . D better question should have been : How come Doug Jones and Patterson/Ellis never fought .
Because if you like Patterson you don't throw him in with Frazier. Patterson was neck and neck with Chuvalo and Quarry, guys whom Frazier stopped.
Frazier has no excuse for not taking on either Liston or Patterson in the late 1960s. He should have fought one of them.
Frazier's resume during the sixties was pretty good without him fighting Floyd or Sonny. Joe would have slaughtered Floyd,sadly.
I dunno. Today robberies don't stop people getting big fights so i've no idea why that would make a difference. At the point ali had his licence stripped floyd and frazier were probably the two top ranked fighters.
Floyd would out-box Joe for about three rounds and would probably look good doing it, if he moves his feet and doesn't stand and trade. Maybe the same left hook that flattened Ingmar has Frazier on the canvas. His faster hands would frustrate Frazier early, until joe closes the gap and pounds Floyds body to a mid round stoppage.
Exactly. Let's face it, they knew Floyd had no chance with Frazier. He'd get steamrolled. Frazier was too strong and too relentless. Like I said, even really strong guys like Chuvalo and Quarry, who Patterson fought close and competitive bouts with, got blown through by Frazier. The powers that be would never allow Liston to fight in a really big-time fight again, not after the Ali II bout. So that was not happening under any circumstances. Sad but true.
This would be a good fight. Patterson does better than people expect here, but ultimately still loses.
Officially, or on paper, he was neck and neck. If you were going strictly off the records, you could easily argue he was a shade lower than Ellis and Quarry... Having seen the fights, I scored the first Quarry fight and the Ellis fights as Floyd winning quite easily on my card... I don't know what kind of politics were involved, but those were fights Patterson should have been the official winner. Ellis whipped Quarry's ass comprehensively, and I don't see what the big controversy was about... Actually, I was impressed with how strong and physical Ellis was... He made Quarry look totally ordinary. When Ellis, who was clearly better than Quarry and Bonavena, fought Patterson, I was expecting Ellis to be the aggressor and generally the boss. It was the opposite. Patterson did some backing up, but generally owned Ellis. Patterson robbed of a knockdown in the 14th due to a bad call by the ref. I'm not saying Patterson beats Frazier, I'm just saying he'd be more competitive than given credit for. Even washed up Patterson whipped the **** out of Bonavena, and took those punches. If that fight had never happened, people would generally pick Bonavena to hit him with something big and have him out of there at some point. What happened was, Bonavena couldn't hardly hit him and ate punches all night. Even when he landed, Patterson took the punches well. I'm just saying it's a shame it never happened, because I think Floyd would have made it interesting for as long as it lasted, which is mid-late in the fight. Floyd liked to mix it up a little too much for his own good.
Frazier does destroy patterson but it is strange they never met especially in the late 60's. Then again Patterson's management wasn't adverse to protecting him and that seems the most likely explanation to me because everyone knows he didn't really lose in the wba tourney.