How come Sugar Ray Leonard didn't force Hagler into a catchweight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Wladimirschin, May 31, 2013.


  1. dlts20

    dlts20 Active Member Full Member

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    let me school you real quick. SRL was only in his 3rd division while Floyd is in his 5th. SRL is bigger at MW than Floyd is at 154. Hagler doesnt put on nearly 20 pounds after the weigh-in like Canelo. Hagler was seen as coming down & a lil shop worn while Canelo is on his way up.

    Most of all, dont forget about SRL's next fight was against Danny Lalonde. Lalonde was a full fledged LHW who SRL made come down to 168 and still had the 168 & 175 pound titles on the line. Which is worst?
     
  2. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing booted

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    I agree, although Marvin was not sharp at all, and to have a guy like Mugabi who is strong and young and undefeated in front of him means as long as John is in front of him it will be a tough fight.
    After Hearns, Hagler looked bad. I would like to think Tommy took something out of him, and it might be true those punches he took sort of stunned him and what it took to win was difficult and everything else. I know Hearns hit him hard so it had to have some effect. Maybe had Marvin fought Tommy more conservatively he would not have been hit as clean and might have come out of the fight less worn out. I think it contributed to his decline, but Marvin basically put all he could into the Hearns fight mentally and physically and beat Hearns whom he said was the next best thing to Leonard.
    And he won, and I think he reached what he always wanted to reach as far as acceptance of his greatness by the public. He got the Pizza Hut and Coke and Deodorant commercial, and that was good for him. He was a sensitive guy and always was, so doing too many things was a lot for Marvin and not his style. I think he did well when he focused on one thing at a time. I think once the commercials started to come and he reached that level, he was 75 percent of the fighter he was before. And I think retiring after Hearns would have been smart with this attitude. I honestly think after he reached that top level he wasn't as motivated anymore. The commercials and the win over Hearns was a justification on his part to reach that Leonard status, and that was enough. I could be wrong. And Ray could tell this when he last spoke to him in 1986 after the Hearns fight. And Ray knew he had to come back, but he wanted a Marvin who was diminished and inactive and less motivated and he got that.
     
  3. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Shameful?
    So three years out in the days when even MW's were usually shot by 30 equates to gaining an advantage on a guy who was fighting at the top level,even a little past his best?

    You all talk like Ray was practically juiced for this fight(metaphorically)

    That must be why he was a clear underdog with the bookies then?

    With all due respect, I think calling his negotiating tricks for Hagler "shameful" is erm...shameful.
    It's still considered the greatest comeback ever, and Marvin wasn't skint going into negotiations.
    Look at how poor Leonard looked from Marvin onwards.That practically obliterates the "Marvin was shot" argument.
    Ray was probably more shot than Marvin.

    And for the record,I'm a Floyd fan who thinks the catchweight was good negotiating.
     
  4. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing booted

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    actually I would think Ray looking like a worn out fighter against Lalonde,Hearns rematch would show that Marvin was probably a worn out fighter himself, and also that Ray had the great style to beat him and studied him from all the years of watching him on HBO. Ray did look good with Duran in Dec. of 1989.
     
  5. ElJaguar

    ElJaguar Member Full Member

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    Even a great and respected fighter like Leonard would have taken heat for demanding a catchweight against Hagler.
     
  6. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But I like to think you have the sense to see that this wasn't some corrupt mismatch,with a fresh Ray picking on a shot Marvin MAG.

    The suggestions here are ludicrous.That fight was one fair and square on the night.
     
  7. Pulev

    Pulev Guest

    Leonard whooped Lalonde's ass.

    easy work son.
     
  8. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What's your thoughts on Andrew Ward fighting and destroying Dawson at 168?
     
  9. dlts20

    dlts20 Active Member Full Member

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    I thought it was weak but Dawson volunteered to do it so I cant rip him for it. Im struggling to see your point though
     
  10. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie booted

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    Hagler wasn't a big mw, he was always around 160 in the ring.
    Leonard is "naturally" bigger than Floyd.
     
  11. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I didn't have a particular point.It was a genuine query.
     
  12. elmaldito

    elmaldito Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He didn't have to because everything was prearranged.
     
  13. dlts20

    dlts20 Active Member Full Member

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    lol......

    I thouight Chad was an idiot for volunteering to go down. Im not totally against CW's like most are. I think every situation is different. Some of them are farce and some of them have very legit reasons for it.

    In a strictly boxing sense, Dawson-Ward was a farce. Ward maybe didnt have to go all the way up but he shouldve met him halfway. Again though, you cant rip a guy when the other called him out and volunteered to do it.

    I also dont like the way that Ward stayed close to him for the whole Super 6 just about and still refuses to go to the UK even when he's clearly a 2 classes above Froch
     
  14. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was 182 on the Monday and 175 on the Thursday night.

    I would have stuck the largest bet I've ever placed on a Ward stoppage if I'd known that.:gsg
     
  15. victor879

    victor879 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not dissing it, just stating what happened. Could you imagine the **** Floyd would get if he asked for a 24x24 foot ring and 12 oz gloves? 12 oz gloves are used by heavyweights and that ring size is huge. You could ride a bike in there.

    I got to give Floyd credit, he asks for 8 oz gloves consistently. I find it interesting that Canelo wants the 10oz gloves, most likely to help with blocking punches and to take some sting off of Floyd. Given Canelo is the bigger puncher and fighter, the extra 2 oz will probably affect him less than Mayweather in theory.

    Speaking of which and on the side: Amazing how Heavyweights used to fight with 8 oz gloves. Ouch.
     


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