How common was RACISM in judging/refereeing in the 1900s?

I doubt most fixes need threats or huge bribes or any outright coercion.

I'm guessing most fighters who partake in these things do so as wilful conspirators, for easy money, part of the game. Often they might be the instigators.
I think it's a bit "Hollywood" to think of all professional boxers as fundamentally honest and noble, and the managers/gamblers/promoters as the 'bad guys' who corrupt these young men or put a gun to their head.

 

mistake

 

I fail to see what slavery ( which was abolished in the early 18 hundreds ) has got to do with America's institutional racism, segregation, and apartheid up until the 1960's.

 

I was at the fight, and it was a minority ( though a sizeable one ) that were racist. It is far too easy to blame the English love of beer for the actions of that minority. Either you are the kind of person who screams out the N word, and calls guys fvcking black *******s, or you are not. Booze has nothing to do with it. Hagler could have been abused in plenty of other ways without referring to his race or colour.

 

I think you are assuming the white fighter is well-to-do but the Euro immigrants filling the ranks during the early part of the century almost all started from abject squalor and most barely got above that as pros. A solid, earning black pro was likely to be leagues wealthier than a white up and comer.

Now, when both are young and off the radar locals, who the hell knows what went on. Newpapers didn't go into much depth on those fights but we can imagine that local sentiments were played to. But it was far more than a racial thing. Ethnic sentiments played a huge in refereeing and judging... Irish, Jewish, Italian, Slavic and so on. Those were far different times. European rivalries were extremely bitter and deadly.

I think we are also thinking far too simplistically in regards to what influences judging. Most time the fixes were much more sophisticated, especially on the highest level. Think of Gans -McGovern, or Ketchel-Langford... if memory serves, those were fights used as build-ups to more lucrative return matches. If the fix was in on either (likely) it was purely to promote a bigger return on the match-up through a return bout. It wasn't so simplistic (and less lucrative) as to merely favor the fighter most resembling the bulk of paying customers.

 

You could start here for a connection tho there are reams of papers and histories on the subject...

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/how-african-slaves-created-prosperous-new-britain

 

yes, i specifically said white moneymakers, and was referring to popular established pro's not up and comers or no names.

in small fights i would agree the chances of a racist judge chosing the white guy are way higher.

that the white community was split into racial groups is a very relevant point to make about the boxing landscape then, it only muddies the water even more tho unfortunately.

 

Let me repeat what I later added to a post above..

I think we are also thinking far too simplistically in regards to what influences judging. Most time the fixes were much more sophisticated, especially on the highest level. Think of Gans -McGovern, or Ketchel-Langford... if memory serves, those were fights used as build-ups to more lucrative return matches. If the fix was in on either (likely) it was purely to promote a bigger return on the match-up through a return bout. It wasn't so simplistic (and less lucrative) as to merely favor the fighter most resembling the bulk of paying customers.

And to euro ethnic rivalries in the US, there were incredibly hostile. Again, it is hard to imagine those times. But they were vastly different than today wherein those rivalries have been largely erased but the racial rivalries remain to an extent.

 

agreed. we have to talk in general terms because there are many ways to fix a fight, and many reasons for doing so, in the context that we got off a bit , gambling intrests was just an example of the wider world of racism being more likely to cause bad decisions against black fighters than an individual racist judge.

i would note that in the case of ketchell langford common practice would be to have the contender win the non title fight to build up the big money title fight, rather than have the popular champion win using the title as bait for the opponent then not making the title fight. (in this case langford likely wore the cuffs so things were decided long before a racist but otherwise honest judge could change things)

 

:tired

 

I take it you think boxing is a clean and legit sport then.

 

Slavery was not totally abolished in the US until the 13th Amendment was passed in 1865.

 

It was a very small minority, plus some of Minter's hard core fans whom it must be said were less than genteel.

 

I was sitting a couple of seats away from Harry Gibbs.I never heard any body use racial epiphets though they may well have. When the plastic bottles began to rain down , we at the front turned our backs to the ring so we could see the missiles coming.A shameful episode but one with several contributory factors imo.