how could tyson have fought differently to beat holy & douglas

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by hobgoblin, Jul 1, 2010.


  1. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Active Member Full Member

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    take the tyson of 1990 vs the douglas of 1990 and the holyfield of *1990*. let's not argue that he was unprepared or unfocused etc. he was still a young, formidable fighter. if you're his trainer, what would you tell him strategically to beat holyfield and douglas?

    vs. holyfield

    (1) throw the right hand lead more often. it was successful in the actual fight. mix up right hand leads with left hooks rather than constantly throw left hooks which become predictable and holy blocks. when tyson threw left-right combinations, holy would block the first punch but tyson would land the second one. in the early rounds, work the body. throw combinations to the body. this is why tyson was successful in round 5. no better way to use handspeed than combinations. when holyfield smothers you, keep punching him on the sides. i still don't know if tyson had the stamina to throw enough punches to beat holy.

    (2) work the body! throw combinations to the body! when douglas clinches you, throw a big left hook to the body. use combinations like the straight right to the body and then the uppercut. douglas was not as resilient as holyfield. tyson really slowed douglas down in round 3 with a left to the body. tyson would have had much more success by working the body rather than headhunting. i think this would have greatly increased his chances to beat douglas.

    tyson lost these fights because he didn't know what to do strategically. otherwise, hanging on for 10-11 rounds is not something to dismiss! what would you tell tyson and do you think if he listened he could win?
     
  2. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    3) Be a better fighter than you actually are.
     
  3. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Active Member Full Member

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    true...the kind of strategy that he'd need to beat douglas or holy is something he's never shown in his entire career...certainly not for more than a few rounds...
     
  4. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Douglas: Mentally and physically better prepared for the fight. His skills were still good enough at that time to beat James Douglas who was a solid fighter but not on Tysons level.

    Holyfield: Just more fighting rounds. I still think Holyfield was vulnerable at this time. He was exhausted in the later rounds himself against a Tyson who offered little offense overall. A better conditioned Tyson might have been able to stop Holyfield late. Neither fighter showed any kind of boxing excellence in that fight, it was more of a wrestling grappling match than a grueling fight.
     
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pretty accurate assessment. Tyson was a formidable enough fighter,but once he failed to impose his not inconsiderable physical gifts on an opponent,he had no idea on how to adapt.
     
  6. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Active Member Full Member

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    hence the whole point of this thread is what strategy did he fail to adapt?
     
  7. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    he could have probably trained and took buster seriously, for one.
     
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    To realise that raw power was not working,and box a more calculating fight. He was at a loss to adapt,as I said.
     
  9. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    OMG what a stupid topic! :patsch

    There is nothing Tyson could have done to beat either Holyfield or Douglas, they are just far better fighters and always had his number stylistically.
    Tyson's technique and skills barely changed his whole career! I swear he was always a headhunter with ragged defense, obsessed with raw power and landing one big punch.

    For the Douglas fight, Tyson was at his peak 100%, excellently prepared with extreme conditioning and discipline. His expert trainer Aaron Snowell ensured that Tyson's head movement and combination punching was better than it ever was and provided genius advice in the corner between rounds. King formed an unmatchable corner which devised a special way to reduce swelling; a latex glove full of water! Problem was the Buster was just too classy for him, he boxed his head off because Tyson could never handle someone with a good jab and lateral movement. He never had the headmovement and footwork to close the distance on a real jab and the lateral movement meant Tyson was unable to land his one big punch other than in round 8. He only has a plan A and that has always been "land a big bomb" but Buster got up so Tyson quit since his master plan failed. It doesn't matter what Tyson turned up becuase they all basically the same and James still beats him 99.9% of the time.

    Now the Holyfield fight....Tyson was maybe 95% of his best as prison might of harmed him a little bit, but it's not really evident as you just need to look at him in Bruno II - that was that best he ever looked!! Summary of Holyfield-Tyson I: Evander was ancient and washed-up but he destroyed prime Tyson. Legendary trainer Jay Bright ensured Tyson was in the best physical and mental shape of his life and polished him technically. I was so impressed by Tyson's unpredictable, telegraphed right hands for the head and he consistently demonstrated great combination punching and elusive headmovement, but it didn't mean **** becuase his number was dialed. Also note, Tyson never had more than 5 rounds of stamina and once it gets to round 6 he is screwed.

    Bottom line is Tyson is just a 5"10 bully with a squeaky voice and nobody had ever stood up to him before Douglas and then Holyfield.
    As soon as someone isn't intimidated they have bought their ticket to victory.
     
  10. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Active Member Full Member

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    true, all you had to do was stand up and hit him and he wouldn't know what to do :lol:
     
  11. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

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    Nothing.
    Holyfield and Douglas just refused to lose on this night......
     
  12. kolcade4

    kolcade4 Keep Punchin' Full Member

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    Tyson let the fame get to him and did not live the life that would reflect someone who was defending the title against Douglas IMO. There was no hope for him in the Holyfield fight . He was a completly different cannibal.
     
  13. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holyfield was simply a better fighter than Tyson...in my opinion. As for Douglas, better training and preparation should have pulled that one out...again, in my opinion.
     
  14. Bigcat

    Bigcat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Douglas fight could have been easily averted had Mike just arrived more motivated and with some realisation that James was capable of taking his titles away.. Coming to Tokyo with a better team, and a professional attitude.... If Mike would have been warmed up and fired up good , he could have made short work of Buster... No doubt..

    The Holyfield fight was not so easy to overturn, Mike was fired up and in shape, but just fought furiously on rage, no game strategy, no plan B, Mike just thought tough was enough.... Holyfield had a great faith that he was gonna beat Mike, If Mike had more faith that he was definitely going to beat Evander and brought substance to the table with it, Holyfield may have had a different animal to contest with.. Mike did not love Boxing in the same way he once did , if Mike had the do or die attitude he had when he had proper fire in his belly as a kid, he would have been a match for many a great champ in history... Mikes lack of love for the way his life had gone and the lack of love for himself contributed heavily.. Mike had no one to win for that he regarded larger than just ordinary pleasing himself and those who paid to watch him.. He had a very low self esteem, and no ambition..
     
  15. gentleman jim

    gentleman jim gentleman jim Full Member

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    Got rid of Jay Bright and Aaron Snowell, Rehired Kevin Rooney and went back to his original style of fighting instead of walking straight ahead looking to land a bomb. This would've helped.