how could tyson have fought differently to beat holy & douglas

Exactly! I'm not saying Rooney was the greatest trainer ever, far from it, but he knew Tyson, knew what to do to ensure Mike performed at his best.

Aaron Snowell was an amateur when it came to training fighters. He didn't know Tyson. Just because these guys might have been around Tyson when he was training means nothing! They did not know him!

If Tyson has prepared better for Douglas he would have got him out of there. Tyson did not even look interested, looked like he was thinking "I could be out doing something else right about now". You have to give Tyson credit because he took severe punishment against Douglas, yet still managed to deck Buster!

 

No I am not thinking that because he had already defeated these fighters that they didn't have a chance against him and as I said I think Tucker would have had a great chance of defeating the Tokyo Tyson but the other fighters would never be good enough, at that time Douglas probably had the best jab in the division and his style of stick and move, the same style that Tunney had against Dempsey, was idealy suited for Tyson.

Douglas AND HIS TEAM had set traps which Tyson walked into you, can hear them them saying let him walk, meaning let him walk into the lead right he was throwing and the jab right jab combination, Tyson would expect to be able to counter of Douglas's 1 2 combination but instead he would throw a hard jab behind his right and he caught Tyson every time.

I agree this Tyson didn't have his mind on the job I just don't agree any other fighter would have beaten him that night.

 

Douglas fought the perfect fight to beat Tyson. Tyson was still very dangrous but he was also showing signs of sliping.
Tyson could have trained better and had a better corner. It might have helped. He did score a knock down in the 8th round, and on the score cards was not out of the fight when he got ko'd.

As for Holyfield. Don't get hurt in traing for their fight in 90 or 91. Even though Tyson was already on the downturn. He could still punch. He still had some head movement. Though not as much. Holyfield would have stood in front of him. I think Tyson would have grindded Holyfield down in 8 or 9 rounds.

 

He didn't know what to do because he had already fired Rooney so the carefully calculated fighting style that required so much mental and physical discipline was abandoned in favor of non stop headhunting...

 

isnt it funny how TYSON became unmotivated once he got hit a few times? he started that fight with quite a lot of pep, a good weight and spring in his step.

:good this is excelent I totaly agree with this. It takes so much extra work to do all this against a bigger guy. you work twice as hard. but I belive tyson didnt get tired or frustrated when all this worked for him and things were going his way, however once he was FORCED to pause for thought it drained from him, he realised how tired he was and the frustration sapped the rerquired consentration.

He became flat when he began losing the exchanges and had less sucsess. Douglas made him flat.

 

You've got it spot on

 

Its not like Tyson had never been in a competitive fight before. He had been pushed before, by both crafty technicians, and also a couple guys that came to fight and came off the deck a few times.

Again, thats why I gave you some of those other fights as examples. Tyson had to think and go back to his corner to get the proper instructions to chop down certain fighters, guys like Tillis and Ribalta, Tucker, smith and even Thomas. As good as a fighter may be, he still has to be mentally and physically prepared as well as having a gameplan and a second set of competent eyes to guide him.

That was part of it, but it wasnt all of it. Again the history of the two fighters, Tyson's real lack of focus, the knockdown in sparring, the separation from his original team etc were all real. The death of Douglas's mother, and the last chance he had to fight for the title as his career was winding down, all carried the two fighters in separate ways and were factors leading up to the fight. Douglas' follow up fight with Evander Holyfield was more proof that it was a one shot deal. Tyson's subsequent fights after the loss to Douglas were also telling as they showed he was better conditioned and determined, but still technically on the downslide.

 

solid post....

I personally think that some of Tyson's previous opponents wouldn't have beaten him that night but Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs would have a solid shot.

We were used to seeing Tyson obliterate solid opponents with such ease that they are consistently undermined despite their talents. Tyson was unable to showcase his ability in full form because Douglas kept Mike's offense in check.

I give credit to Buster because not every fighter could have beaten him that night but I acknowledge that Tyson wasn't Tyson that night either.

As for Holyfield, Tyson needed to work the body more and make better use of his right hand. Not as easy as it sounds but Evander was holding and wrestling alot because he was unable to keep up a frantic pace all night so he found a way to fight in spurts and save his energy enough to keep Mike in check.

Remember then 10th round, Tyson was winning it up until the last 30 seconds when Evander regained his 2nd wind to put an all out assault on Mike.

Keys to Victory
Work the body
Use his jab more frequently
Use the right hand more frequently
Vary the attack

Tyson fought Evander and looked predictable throughout the fight. He never once made Evander think. That 5th round showed that he has the ability to turn things around.

I'm not one to believe that Holyfield had Tyson's number, I just think that he always had the ability to outsmart Tyson in the ring. Which why I believe that Mike would have beaten him soundly in the ring had they met in 1991 because Evander's HW experience by the time he met Tyson had matured exponentially.

 

Tysons focus began to deminish once the douglas fight became hard. The knockdown in sparring does not mean anything, thats where fighters iron out mistakes. Maybe his prep was not ideal but it was not against bruno (suicide attempt) or tucker (where he fought carrying a STD and was overweight) either. by fight time tyson always knew what to do. Tyson against douglas meant business, was in shape, had trained to a peak and was ready to fire on all cylinders. He was in shape and had focus other wise he wouldnt have lasted 10 hard rounds. Douglas had the night of his life and was a truly great fighter for one fight.

The douglas in tokyo would have beat all the guys Tyson met up until that point. No way had Tyson fought anyone close to what douglas had that night. Tokyo was a one fight deal. Busters own father gave up on him because he knew what his son should be. For one fight he was, but he could never find that drive again. The douglas who fought hollyfield wouldnt have lasted one round with Tyson.

 

these guys let Tyson into the fight. douglas did not, he was in charge. Tucker had a good first round but did not punish Tyson and boss the tempo. Tyson was wary against tubbs but tubbs wasnt there to tear a title from him like buster was -tubbs gave tyson too much room. Thomas and tubbs had already had a title they were good fighters but it wasnt their big oppertunity.

 

Tyson lasted eight rounds with Lennox Lewis where he argueably took as much or more punishment. Do you think he was focused and fit for that fight? Tysons fitness and focus started to diminish after the Spinks fight. He fought against Berbick with a STD, not Tucker, and he still had Kevin Rooney to go back to in the corner, and was phyiscally and mentally prepared to fight for a title fight. It was his first title, not a defense against a guy who had known to be somewhat soft.

Again, you dont know that and history would suggest otherwise, he had lost to fighters that Tyson had dominated (Tucker, Ferguson), and never been competitive with anyone on Tyson's level. Your seem to be excusing Douglas lack of fire and focus in prior bouts, but not Tyson's in the Douglas fight.
A well focused conditioned Tyson might not have let Douglas operate at the level he did that night.

 

If Tyson became so useless after getting tagged a few times than how in the world did he drop Douglas in the 8th and make a fight of it again?

 

Interesting quote by Kevin Rooney on the Douglas fight: