How damaging were the D!ck Tiger losses to Jose Torres's legacy?

How damaging was it to Torres's legacy especially since a 10 lbs lighter, welterweight champion named Emile Griffith stepped up to the plate and boxed his finest performance against this same **** Tiger....who before Griffith, resoundingly reclaimed his middleweight title, just before that, he brutalized Rubin Carter.
I saw both fights with Torres live on tv...and I noted that Torres's swings and punches in general were spectacular and flashy compared to the compact, strong as a bull, economical punches of **** Tiger. Yeah, the Puerto Rican crowd rioted after the results of the rematch, but anybody could tell that Tiger had just done it again...he just outfought, outsmarted and outgeneraled Chegui, just like in the first fight. Torres was a bit lucky to catch a totally spent force in Willie Pastrano....it made him look better than he was. He was expected to wreck havoc with Wayne Thornton,...then was the mystifyingly tough bout he had with Eddie Cotton. If Cotton had only exerted himself more in the last couple of rounds, HE would have been the new champion...a man even older than Tiger. A curious lack of substance in this man Torres. He redeemed himself superficially vs Chic Calderwood, with one brutal punch, but the handwriting was on the wall.
I was impressed by old man Tiger, but even more impressed with Emile Griffith for showing up Jose Torres. (I know how close the Griffith-Tiger fight was, and don't care)..Griffith outboxed, outstrengthed at times and generally looked very good imo, decking MR. Ihetu for the first time in his career in the process. All this made Torres look rather insubstantial and clueless, to say the least..and yes, it damaged his legacy, which Torres, with his literary, intellectual pretensions (he was idolized by the cultural intelligensia, especially Norman Mailer)...could do nothing about. He was exposed, and after going out a winner, just barely, after being decked twice by Charlie The Devil Green...incidently, a very wise move...he just escaped hanging around for the Bob Foster reign of terror, where he would have really been exposed.

 

Sometimes looking a weight class bigger isn't such a big deal. And sometimes they are closer in natural size than one might think. Didn't Torres start out at middleweight too?

Before cruiserweight and super middle were created the Lightheavyweights were not really an exclusive division until the 1970s.

In many ways LH was a land of limbo for tall middleweights and 180 pound heavyweights who took a few pounds off to compete for another title. It was almost like there was a title but no real division. There are not that many LH champs who fought just other lightheavys. I would not mind knowing who the first purley "LightHeavyweight exclusive" LH champ was+

 

I'm trying but it just haunts me

 

Definitely damaging.....it always is when a world champ gets beat after a title run and doesn't bother to come back from it(unless there is a genuine reason like injuries, car crash sudden death etc) especially to an older fighter that was considered past their prime.

Torres was a very good fighter imo, but a bit too "programmed" for me.Robotic and lacking in a natural versatility.

Tiger wasn't that versatile either, but on the other hand was a much more natural, instinctive fighter that could work within his limitations much better imo.

 

I wouldn't say Pastrano was a totally spent force btw, though of course you can never tell just how hard he'd trained for any fight.He still had his legs and timing there and had looked fine in his previous fights, give Torres credit for that one, he just kicked Willie's ****.

 

Torres would have won vs Tiger if he lived up to his performance vs Pastrano,...but like I said, Willie was shot.

 

Yes he did,....he punished Pastrano more in that fight than he was punished in his entire career,...but the signs of Pastrano slipping were evident in his miracle ko win over Terry Downes...Willie really had no business winning that one.

 

yeah, he had that cus d'amato programmed sort of approach.Not necessarily robotic looking, but in mentality.

cobra, good point about the Downes fight, i'd actually forgot he had so much trouble there.With Pastrano it's hard to really say if he was past it or not though, with him being so much of a playboy throughout his career he could always have that sort of performance.

 

Agree with Lora's points, and also with the point that Tiger proved he was much more the natural, more flowing instinctive talent. Torres frankly fought scared. Or at least quite concerned.

Another damaging fight in Torres' legacy was the Cotton fight. He was damn lucky not to let that 40-year old walk out of there with the title.

 

Notwithstanding his legacy, but it certainly derailed his ambitions. I recall reading an article many years ago that he was aiming for a shot at Ali's heavyweight title or the vacant title. Apparently he had dumped Patterson on the canvas during sparring which started it all. We know he broached the surface of this by giving Tom McNeeley a thumping in a non-title and I'm not recalling where he may have been aiming at Patterson as a springboard to the top rung of heavies since Patterson wasn't managed by Cus by this time. But the Tiger fights put this all asunder.

 

Some people are like a broken record....you know who you are.