How did 190lb Jack Dempsey DESTROY super-heavyweight 240lb Jess Willard?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BoxerFan89, Aug 13, 2015.


  1. BoxerFan89

    BoxerFan89 Active Member Full Member

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    Jess Willard is equivalent to a modern day super-heavyweight. He was 6''7 and 245lbs.

    Dempsey was just under 6''1 (tall H.W for his day) but 190lbs. So how did he mow down Willard?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Willard was 6'6.25"Dempsey was 6'1" 187lbs.Willard was out of shape, over confident, and facing a guy who could hit like few men can.
     
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Ever seen Willard fight? Credit to Dempsey for looking very good but several great 180lbers would mow down Willard. Especially that version.
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    There are a number of factors.

    Willard may not have been prime at that point but when he came back a few years later he was still good enough to be relevent among the contenders at that time. I think Jess was a better over all class even then than some might think.

    I think an important factor is that today Dempsey and Willard would be fighting each other with gloves twice as big and no way could Dempsey make the required sustained impression to hurt big Jess so much in the first round.

    Without question so much of that result relied upon the equipment and officiating of the time. In a way that it can not now.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If the fight was staged under modern rules it would have been stopped much more quickly. There's no reason at all that bigger gloves would prevent Dempsey landing that opening punch on Willard, and that was the one that did the damage. The difference the new equipment would make is that Willard wouldn't make it out of the first round.
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Would Dempsey get to stand over him without the neutral corner rule? That should have given Dempsey the advantage to finish him off early
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, yes he would have.


    Of course not, but let's look.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BTycNuY44

    The deadly combo is at 3:15. Dempsey isn't "standing over" Willard when he rises, but he does get closer than he would have these days and launches a sort of surprise attack. Dempsey drops him again with four or five punches.

    There are two questions here. 1) At what point is Willard no longer able to defend himself in a meaningful way - that is, when is he no longer meaningfully able to defend himself for Dempsey and 2) Would having 8 seconds plus a referee asking him if he's ok be enough time for him to recover and properly defend himself? I'd suggest the answer to the first question is "at the end of the second KD" and the answer to the second is "no". But of course, we'll never know for certain. But the fight would be finished under modern rules after the third KD.
     
  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    With a neutral corner rule Willard gets more time to recover.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ...yeah i know, i talk about it in the post you quoted.

     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I agree Willard would have still been hurt with that punch because it landed sweet but a bigger glove would have cushioned the impact a tad. Put that with a modern standing eight count and it gives Willard that much more time to get himself together. It might give Jess the chance to hang on and at least prepare for what Jack had in store for him after a real count. We cannot rule out the possibility of a lot less knockdowns in the opener, or even points taken off Jack for hitting Jess when he was not properly up. That (if it was called) could cause a delay of some time.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think anyone who looks at what actually happened in the ring that day and thinks that Willard would have survived longer than three rounds with a modern referee in tow has an agenda.
     
  13. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The reason the performance is so impressive is because, despite the negative remarks about Willard, very few fighter's (if any) could have replicated Jack's performance. You'll note at the very beginning Willard is not that easy to get to and manages to ward off some vicious attacks. It is the last of a clever four punch combination (body, body, body, head) that gets through and hammers Willard's jaw. This is the shot which started the butchering, but to think any other decent heavyweight puncher could easily recreate this has not paid attention to the positions Jack got himself into, achieved through movement and explosiveness.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Willard was big and durable, but older, and poor on defense. Dempsey had top level power and speed. You can find guys 185 pounds that hit harder than those who are 240 pounds.

    Once Dempsey first hook crashed into Willard's jaw, Willard went down and could not recover well enough to defend himself...because Dempsey would not let him.
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Willard was a 37 year old, semi-retired amateur who had fought 10 rounds in 4 years. I think a plethora of heavyweights over the sport's history take him out in 3 rounds.