How did 190lb Jack Dempsey DESTROY super-heavyweight 240lb Jess Willard?

don't smaller gloves favor the fighter with the strongest/least broken hands far more than anything to do with size?

 

I don't know ,I would assume so since the sanctioning bodies are paid off to suit certain fighters by promoters .But I don't pay much mind to that I just look at top 5 mostly bvecause that's more fact than opinon,its hard to fake a top 5.

 

The problem with the gloves argument is that you can't take something away without giving something in return, because everybody wore the same gloves.

If Dempsey's power was an artefact of the smaller gloves, then he must have been one of the most durable fighters in history, because he was taking punches from superheavyweights wearing the same gloves.

How then are modern fighters going to hurt him with the pillows they wear today?

Since the limited test data we have, suggests that it makes next to no difference, I suggest that we should provisionally proceed on that assumption.

 

Well actually the smaller gloves would favor the bigger Hw's that's why they use bigger gloves today than the lighter divisions,they hit faster and harder today,putting say a 5 ounce glove on a Lennox Lewis type fighter would be a death sentence say to anyone like Marciano or Louis..The smaller gloves would only speed the punches up,not so much hitting harder but bigger gloves with a heavier person can cause greater impact than smaller ones because of the weight of the gloves.What the main differenace is the modern gloves cause less cuts,they are more padded but the overall impact goes to a larger surface.

 

in the case of two guys simultaneously throwing a "goodnight Vienna" punch yes, only the one that lands first is important.

I don't think a clean concussive punch ever gets made into less of a punch in itself but it can make a less effective connection if the glove is two times more cushioned.

if you were giving away 50lb and so much of everything else and your punches are also twice as cushioned as before it makes a difficult task fast become a hopeless task.

I think landing more often is more important but if you are fighting a 50lb heavier guy it's proberbly best not to let him hit you first. Given the choice of landing first or being hit first what would most people chose? Then there is the guy landing more often and making absolutely no effect against a guy landing less and making an effect each time versus a situation where a guy making some effect landing more often against a guy who is landing less and making effect. I think the situation of the second guy is more acceptable to a volume puncher.

I'm offering an explanation of why something that was always quite rare did happen versus a situation where it won't even be attempted even with a class advantage other than the simplistic "big guys got better by themselves". Why did big guys get better by themselves?

That's certainly an interpretation of something you remember about me but unfortunately you refuse to accept my explanation of it. Reach is a natural advantage. It is a great thing to have. You would prefer to listen to Angelo Dundee explain more about it during the Holmes v Witherspoon fight.

I pick lennox lewis, a prime Joe Louis and many others an even chance of beating marciano on his best ever night and absolutely nobody beating Marciano or any ATG on his best ever night wiping him out mismatch style.
I'm just trying to look beyond a mainstream viewpoint becoming established opinion.

And the guy who lands most often.

It could be minor it could be significant. Bigger gloves on top of everything else could be the final last hope reduced entirely for smaller guys. Something minor can be the straw that broke the camels back.
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Everything favours the bigger fighter always. Reducing the last hope favours him even more.

Not necessarily so. If people came on and said Joe Louis on his best night lasts one round versus George Foreman I would want to describe why I think Louis deserves more credit.

 

he was and they all hurt him too. Jack hit them more times though and he was a great puncher.

true, it will be harder for them too but the bigger guy is always going to be more effective punch for punch anyway. He will always make an impression with less.

if bigger gloves make no difference why is it then that sparring gloves are not smaller than completion gloves?

 

If bigger gloves do make a difference, why isn't it reflected in laboratory testing?

 

I accepted this all along. Bigger slower guy trying to reach a superior great fighter, faster, smaller target..these Willards and buddy baers struggled to make clean connections. They landed less and struggled to make clean connections. Meanwhile Louis and Dempsey land clean and land more often and they were great punchers. So they had a class gap, landed more, landed more cleanly more often but even in these cases Firpo and Baer knocked Louis a b d Dempsey out if the ring with far fewer punches.

No. Re Firpo and Baer. I'm not over looking it. Bigger men hit harder too. Always said that. Problem is, when there is a class gap and the little man lands a lot more clean shots whilst the bigger man lands less and of them struggles to make clean connections the bigger man is still, Always, making an impression with less. There never was any getting round that bit.

if he lands cleanly. Otherwise the one landing cleanly most times wins.

I do and have done. Yes once again the harder puncher hits even harder with smaller gloves. Most times that's the bigger guy. I get that. It also comes down to who lands cleanest most times. Some times that's the big guy sometimes that's the little guy.

there is a lot of fact in this. I don't dismiss any of it. Another fact is that nobody is sparring with 6oz gloves in training because that would be more dangerous.

I'm one of them. It would be better for the big guys overall especually if they are not getting hit back cleanly twice as much like Willard and Baer etc from somebody as good as Joe Louis

 

The difference is obvious. Competition gloves hurt more. Much smaller impact area. Just feels harder. Blunt heavy sensation. Sparring gloves still hurt too but you won't feel that same concentration on the target area. The impact and weight behind is exactly the same "but different" that's how I would describe it. Working away the bigger gloves are more cumbersome getting your hands free. Competition gloves you have more space and room. But less guard. At no time did I want to be hit with even smaller gloves. Most people will say the same.

As for hands well if your hands are taped up good yes you can hurt your knuckles and thumbs even in sparring. I consider damage of the punch itself is why bigger gloves are used in sparring. Most boxers would chose for their spar mate to wear bigger gloves than they do if they were honest. That would not be true if there was no difference.