How did 190lb Jack Dempsey DESTROY super-heavyweight 240lb Jess Willard?

For the record, I think Dempsey would have taken care of Willard even with modern gloves. Jess simply did not have the tools, beyond his durability, to deal with a fire******* like Dempsey.

 

F I R E C R A C K E R like Dempsey. there, I said it.

 

Many years ago I read in an article that contrary to some opinions the modern larger gloves used , was more conducive to rendering a fighter unconscious than the thinner gloves of the oldtimers which were more apt to cut and scar fighters, thus many of the oldtimers used pickle brine on their faces. This evidence was from a lab which tested these gloves...Wish I still have that article...At any event I believe this theory as a punch with gloves covers a much wider area than the skin tight gloves of older times...And I'm not talking about 18" training pillows...
P.S. Now the Dempsey detractors and modern bashers having tried other
excuses to demean one of our greatest heavyweights and beloved attraction ever, now must use the "reason that Dempsey was effective against Willard was because he used smaller gloves". Well doubters, what will be your next disparaging tactic to bash a fighter named William Harrison Dempsey ?
Revisionism at it's most lethal ...

 

I'm just pointing out that all the Dempsey detractors who say he stood over men and didn't go to a neutral corner after he knocked them down need to bear in mind that it worked both ways, his opponents had the same opportunities he had. Therefore it was a level playing field.

 

Mc, there is no "level" playing field when the name jack Dempsey is involved...The name Jack Dempsey is like a "red flag to a bull"
to some posters by and large on ESB. It is almost clinical in it's hatred of a man who fought 90 years ago...This is why I try to be fair in his defense to this great fighter of 9 decades ago...When I can no longer speak the truth who else on ESB would take the
flack Dempsey's name conjures on ESB ?

 

First of all this beating did not cause a knock out at the time, Willard survived the round and retired after the third round. Second I never said "Dempsey Would not stop Willard" at any point. I don't know why you want to believe that?. I said it "would be a different fight with modern gloves and officiating" and it would be. Dempsey still hurts Willard, I was very clear about that. In fact for all you know saying it "would be a different fight" could include another scenario with the possibility of the first head shot actually keeping Willlard up. leaving him stunned enough to be defenceless standing up without going down, thus causing a modern stoppage on his feet.

You are looking for somethibg that's not there. You asked if I thought it would last longer than three rounds and I said "probably".

No I am saying it to offer an alternative to the belief that giant boxers (who always had been around) "suddenly" became better than they used to be. I am suggesting that Bigger gloves make it harder for smaller guys to make an impression. Yes it works both ways. It always did then. The giants had the small gloves too. But by the 1990s little guys not only had to be ATG's but they also had to become body builders just to compete with giants. Before that they knocked giants out anyway. Joe Louis and Dempsey did not need to be bodybuilders to beat Willard and Buddy Baer. Maybe they would have to now?

That is a good point, the Ref in the McCall fight stopped Lewis who may have been just as hurt as Willard was after the very first knockdown so taking that on board I have to accept there is no "distinct impossibility" that a modern ref might make that call and stop it right there. However, is it so blind, or so bias to suggest would Dempsey even score so clean a knock down with just one punch dressed in modern gloves? It might take two punches, it might create a different concussive reaction altogether owing to the different speed and spreading impact of a larger glove.

all of this is very difficult to know. You attack my viewpoint as bias, why not consider it simply "alternative". No offence is meant. None of this is designed to dismiss anything Dempsey achieved because the man was a phenom. It was a transitional period. Dempsey came quite close to the bare knuckle era where fighters fenced for openings in a way to spare the knuckles. Dempsey brought in combination attacks. Perhaps greater understanding of taping hands allowed him to embrace a more free swinging style? Who knows? Bigger gloves do offer a much greater guard. There are pros and cons with big gloves and small gloves. You can thread a punch through a narrower gap with a smaller glove but against that you have less to block with too. But even finding it difficult to know could you at least let me know what gloves Dempsey might actually chose?

you could be right. Those of us who think bigger gloves make a difference too could also be right too. Probably nobody is wrong.

 

Come on Burt .. Dempsey is given plenty of praise by many .. the questions over Wills are legit and it haunts him .. that does not mean he was not a terrific specimen and a terribly talented fighter .. question for you .. Do you feel Jack's inactivity as champion left him as a career underachiever ?

 

Vitally Klitschko?

 

he G, I did not say all ESB posters rip apart the legacy of Dempsey...But quite a few do...Yes I do feel that fate would have been kinder to Jack Dempsey's legacy if his signing for the fight with Harry Wills was not aborted and they fought...And I feel very strongly that today many posters simply do not want to address the fact that following the Jeffries / Johnson bout in Reno
in which terrible race riots ensued leading to many deaths and injuries across the nation, promoters and money men were fearful and reluctant to promote a HW title match between a white and black heavyweight...These fears were legitimate and a promoter feared that if he promoted a bi-racial HWT title bout and riots and deaths occured, he would be blamed for these deaths because of the desire to make money...But whenever I bring up this subject I NEVER get a response....I wonder WHY !!!!.
So yes Dempsey should have fought the one deserving challenger Harry Wills, no doubt...Though I believe fervently that Will's straight up style would be catnip for the prime Dempsey.
And much as I love my alltime boxing idol Harry Greb, I cannot
blame Dempsey's braintrust for avoiding this " no-win" match.
If Dempsey would of somehow lost to Greb, there gioes the title worth millions of dollars, and if Dempsey catches up to Harry Greb [which I believe], the public would snicker " why don't Dempsey pick on a man his own size "...Truly a NO Win dilemma.

 

Holy ****, there's a record?

 

Great post, as always Burt.

I'm a pretty big Dempsey fan myself, especially after reading a book called "A flame of pure fire"

I always thought it would make for an interesting movie of him going to from bar to bar taking on the toughest fighters, and riding the rails. And although it sounds interesting, it much of been a very tough life to live during that period of time.

 

That's the guy who had been in martial sports for 23 years, right? The guy who was 37 fights into his career, including numerous fights for various belts including major championships?

OK.

 

So he was prety thrashed already, and then he had a long layoff on top of that?