How did Corbett get big fights right away?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Feb 24, 2016.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    How was he able to fight the best fighters of his time right off the bat? How did that come about?
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He was an amateur champion from San Francisco, he had quite a lot of amateur bouts and was named the champion of the Olympic Club there.
     
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Yes, being a member of and champion of the Olympic Club was a big boost and the fact that there weren't that many professional fighters at the time meant you could climb the ladder and get big fights very quickly.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Corbett if you use news decisions from shorter sparring matches was 59-0-3 before he meet Peter Jackson in 1891.

    He had 12 matches with men who are in the hall of fame. My main beef with him is focused much of his time on the theater / acting over boxing at the absolute peak of his career.

    He could have fought Maher, or Goddard if he wanted to as Champion
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He could have re-matched Jackson, but we all know that wasn't going to happen! He could have re-matched Sharkey after drawing with him and re-matched Choynski as champion ,why did he pick Charley Mitchell who was at the end of the trail?
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    For what it's worth, I have a book stating that Corbett had already 25 KO's in 1894. So, we can expect that his experience was quite a bit more than something like boxrec would show.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Why do you blatantly leave out the facts? Corbett and Jackson meet to talk about a re-match.

    Corbett said he would fight in New Orleans or Jacksonville. He was known in both towns for beating Sullivan and Mitchell. The live gate draw was everything back then. Jackson balked.

    It might interest you to learn that Peter Jackson had a match in the state of Kentucky. Kentucky was a Confederate state!

    I'm sure you will say, Jackson, he didn't want to fight in the South. The problem is he did.

    I never read any problems with the crowd assaulting fighters in big matches.

    The champion picks the venue and terms, not the challenger.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Interesting, which book?
     
  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    You think those would be considered exhibitions? Or were they more serious bouts?
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A mix of both. Many of them were short affairs where no official decision was rendered but had spectators.

    Many of the records of the old timers are incomplete. This is especially true of fighters who fought in the 1800's.

    Below is a list of three combined reported sources for Corbett's ring record. Based on the combined lists Corbett had 64 fights!

    Take note, Corbett was 59-0-3 at one point before losing to Bob Fitzsimmons! Only a true boxing master could achieve such a record.

    ** the 59-0-3 record assumes the W vs Peter Jackson as listed is really a draw. Otherwise, its 60-0-2** Be sure to read the key at the bottom of the page.

    Many W's are really Ko wins for Corbett.


    Appendix 1
    FOR THE RECORD: The following is the complete list of bouts for James J. Corbett and Charles Mitchell according to the Ocala (Fla.) Evening Star of Feb. 2, 1894. Additional results from the Ring Record Book and Boxing's Top 100 havebeen included on this list. In some cases, dates, first names and other information are not available.

    JAMES J. CORBETT:

    San Francisco, Daw Eiseman, two rounds, W
    San Francisco, Jim Hare, four rounds, W
    San Francisco, Ed Siossen, three rounds, W
    San Francisco, Jim McCarty, three rounds, W
    San Francisco, Joe Chosinski, one round, W, (a)
    San Francisco, Bob McCord, one round, W
    San Francisco, Billy Welch, eight rounds, W
    San Francisco, George Maxwell, two rounds, W
    San Francisco, Tom Pollard, four rounds, W
    San Francisco, John Dwyer, one round, W
    San Francisco, Ed Rose, eight rounds, W
    San Francisco, L.R. Fulda, four rounds, W
    San Francisco, Jack Burke, eight rounds, draw, (8-27-88 )
    San Francisco, Mike Brennan, eight rounds, W
    San Francisco, Con Riordan, two rounds, W
    San Francisco, Captain James H. Daley (also Daily), 4 rounds, W
    San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, four rounds, W, (5-30-89) (a)
    Salt Lake City, Frank Smith, sewn rounds, W
    Salt Lake City, Duncan McDonald, eight rounds, W , (b)
    San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, three rounds (some sources say four), W, (7-15-89) San Francisco, Martin Costello, four rounds, W
    San Francisco, George Atkinson, three rounds, W
    San Francisco, Prof. William Miller, six rounds, W
    San Francisco, Larry SUlliwn, two rounds, W
    San Francisco, Frank Glowr, four rounds, W, (6-30-88 (c)
    San Francisco, John Donaldson, eight rounds, W
    Portland, Ore., Daw Campbell, 10 rounds, W, (7-29-89) (d)
    San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, 27 rounds, W, (6-5-89) (a)
    New Orleans, Jake Kilrain, six rounds, W, (2-18-90)
    Brooklyn, Dominic McCaffery, four rounds, W, (4-14-90)
    San Francisco, Peter Jackson, 61 rounds, W, (5-2-91) (e)
    Milwaukee, Ed Kinney, four rounds, W, (10-8-91)
    Philadelphia, Matt Donovan, one round, W, (3-20-89) (f)
    New Jersey, Peter Courtney, six rounds, W, (9-7-94)
    Philadelphia, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) (g)
    Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W


    Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W
    Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W
    Madison Square Garden, William Speflings, one round, W, (h) Madison Square Garden, Bob Goffey, one round, W
    Madison Square Garden, Joe Lannon, th.-ee rounds, W, (i) Hartford, John McMahan, two rounds, W
    Albany, Jack McDonald, one rounds, W
    Columbus, Jim Hughes, two rounds, W
    Butte, Mont. , Jack Grace, two rounds, W
    San Francisco, Mike Olson, one round, W
    Tucson, Mike Sullivan, two rounds, W
    EI Paso , Jack Donnelly, two rounds, W
    New Orleans, John L. Sullivan, 21 rounds, W, (9-7-92) Jacksonville, Charlie Mitchell, three rounds, W, (1-25-94)
    New Orleans, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95)
    San Francisco, Tom Sharkey, four rounds, draw (6-24-96) (j) Carson City, Nev., Bob Fitzsimmons, 14 rounds, L, (3-17-97)
    New York, Tom Sharkey, 9 rounds, L (foul), (11-22-98
    Coney Island, Jim Jeffries, 23 rounds, L, (5-11-1900)
    New York, Kid McCoy, five rounds, W, (8-30-1900)
    San Francisco, Jim Jeffries, 10 rounds, L, (8-14-03)





    KEY CORBETT NOTES:
    (a) correct spelling is Joe ChoYnSki, first fight is also called a no decision by some sources; 5­30-89, stopped by police in the fourth round; 6-5-89, stopped ChOYnski in the 27th, and 7­15-89, won four-round bout according to 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time by Bert Sugar.
    (b) also called a draw by some sources.
    (c) also called a draw by some sources.
    (d) called a draw after 10 rounds because Corbett failed to score a knockout as agreed.
    (e) called a no contest by referee Hiram Cook, no punches were thrown in the 61st round, fight took four hours and 10 minutes, also (and more reasonably) called a draw by some sources.
    (f) also listed as Mike Donovan and called a sparring session or exhibition by some sources. (g) site also listed as New Orleans, McVey listed as Jim and John by different sources.
    (h) the result is similar to one reported for 2-16-92, a one-round victory o\ler one Bill Spilling in Rochester.
    (i) also called a no decision by some sources
    (j) also has 1-round KO victory o\ler Emest Roeber on 1-3-97, no site, listed as an exhibition.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No the problem is Jackson took out pages in newspapers saying he would not fight Corbett south of the Mason Dixon line and I've seen them. Corbett had no intention of giving Jackson
    a title shot,and only began to beat the drum and stick out his chest when Jackson was safely back down under on the otherside of the world..The similarity between his behaviour and your own after your trip to the Uk is striking!
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    More like he folded tent just like you did.:deal Jackson if felt Corbett wasn't genuine could have called his bluff. Yet he did not!

    I already showed you Jackson would fight in the south. Fights are made where they will make the most money or back then where they could be staged.
     
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Cool. Thanks for the info and the stats Doza!
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jackson had a meaningless bout against a debutee that's a bit different to challenging for the worlds title.

    Corbett said he would only fight in ONE place ,the Jacksonville Athletic Club in Florida.

    Corbett found another way to avoid the
    rematch.
    The signed articles agreeing to the fight had only one stipulation: that the
    fight be held somewhere north of the Mason-Dixon line.
    Throughout his career,
    Jackson
    had
    been
    prevented
    by
    Davies
    from
    visiting
    the
    deep
    south.
    According
    to
    Tom
    Langley:
    In the evening of his years when the "Parson" reminisced to the journalists
    he
    had
    said
    that
    he
    had
    effectively
    cured
    Peter
    of
    his
    dream
    for
    a
    triumphal
    tour
    through
    Tennessee
    and
    Louisiana
    by
    presenting
    him
    with
    a
    copy
    of
    "Uncle
    Tom’s
    Cabin."
    This
    book
    was
    amongst
    Peter’s
    possessions
    when
    he
    died.
    (1974:27)
    Despite the offer from London’s National Sporting Club to host the match,
    the only place that was acceptable to Corbett was the Jacksonville Athletic
    Club in Florida.

    Peter’s response was related by the San Francisco correspondent
    for
    the
    Referee:
    "I have nothing against the southern sportsmen," said Jackson to me. "I
    have met a great number of them in New York and elsewhere, and they
    are as thorough-going as the northern set. It is not the sporting men
    proper that I am afraid of, but the rabble. No one in this country needs
    to be told of the intense hatred of my race that exists south and I firmly
    believe that if I whipped Corbett, or any other white man down there, I
    would be shot before I could leave the ring." (19 September 18


    Stop with the bullsh*t!
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    He innovated new techniques in fellatio the likes of which the wealthy captains of industry of the day had never experienced before (unless they had spent time in Siamese brothels) and was thus able to secure major financial backing in a pre-mob era.