How did Tyson Fury and Muhammed Ali go from glass jaws to granite chins

"Blasphemy" is the right word for Ali cultists. The golden gloves manlet era of "heavyweight" boxing can never be topped, metaphysically impossible.

 

Oh my bad. Perhaps Ali should have had 0 title defenses, been caught on PEDs and also avoided all the best boxers for years like Fury. THEN maybe Ali would have been as great as the almighty unbeatable Fury...

 

Wilder and Wlad both had loads of title defences and Fury beat them convincingly. Ali was floored several times by light punchers, he fought plenty of bums and with fair officiating would have had 10 losses in an era where HW boxing was essentially a national tournament contested by small cruisers and sub-cruisers.

 

Because even if you erase all the evidence of him getting put down or badly hurt by weak punching fighters just because these guys are SHWs then theres the instance of him getting put down hard and hurt by light punching steve Cunningham. Cunningham was 210 but that wasn't even his natural weight. He is a natural sub 200 pounder. But i wouldn't give Fury stick for just getting knocked down by a blown up Cruiserweight because there are Cruiserweights that hit hard. Im giving him stick because this blown up Cruiserweight was pillowfisted as hell at Cruiserweight, let alone heavyweight. Past Cruiserweights that hurt or knocked down Ali could punch hard for their weight class. Henry Cooper was a modern day Cruiserweight but he was known for his left hook. just because you're big doesn't mean your a powerful puncher. Fury himself is a great example of this and so is Mariusz Wach and Mike White and just because your big doesn't automatically mean you're going to have a more solid chin than a much smaller fighter. David Price, Jorge Luis Gonzalez, Dillian Whyte, Anthony Joshua and Michael Grant are good examples and just because you're a small doesn't mean its impossible for you to produce power equivalent to that of hard punching Super heavyweights. Bert Cooper is a good example of this along with Earnie Shavers, Tommy Morrison, Mike Tyson and Gassiev and just because you're a small heavyweight doesn't automatically mean you're going to have a weaker chin than the bigger men. Ali is a good example and so is Zeljko Mavrovic, Oleksandr Usyk and Larry Holmes.

Ali has a cast iron chin for eating some of Shavers bombs and Foremans as well and not getting knocked down. Shavers was a murderous puncher but he was a glass cannon and an unskilled slugger which is why his KO ratio isn't in the 90% range. Just because he wasn't a SHW doesn't mean he didn't hit hard. Joe Bunger himself said Shavers was the hardest hitter he fought and Bunger fought big punchers like Bruno and Lyle and Holmes fought Mike Tyson and said the same thing about Shavers hitting harder.

Stop looking too much into statistics. Boxing doesn't work like that. Shavers was a huge puncher but he didn't posses an efficient delivery system like Mike Tyson or Wladimir Klitschko which is why he lost against a few small heavyweights and bums and didn't have a monstrous KO ratio even though 75% is a pretty high ratio. My measurement for below average is applying and comparing Fury's chin to world class fighters from the past and now. If you're refeering to actual human average then Fury has a great chin. Im not. Also my definition of chin might be different. Fury has never been KO'd but he has been dropped and hurt on several occasions but what he has is great recovery. Recovery and punch resistance (chin) are two different things. But if you think recovery is part of your punch resistance then Fury has an iron chin i guess.

 

Cunningham fought at 210 lbs without any fat on him, he was cutting weight to make cruiser as a mature man and it wasn't a standard shot that floored Fury; it was a wild, swinging haymaker that Fury walked onto, who still had his legs under him after he got up. Cunningham was also first man to stop Huck, who went 12 rounds later on with Povetkin and Briedis, so he clearly had some power. When Cooper fought Ali he was the size of a light heavyweight post-rehydration and his record when carefully analysed suggests that he was not a big puncher even in his day against cruisers and sub-cruisers, yet Ali's corner had to use smelling salts to revive him and tear his gloves to give him extra time to recover. Sonny Banks, Chuck Wepner and even Joe Frazier were all light punchers by modern HW standards as well. But despite this Ali still likely had an above average chin by today's standards in the top 30, at least when he was around 220 lbs.

Although Fury was very elusive against Wlad and Wilder (at 60%) he still took plenty of shots, something like 125 over the first two fights. If these are the biggest punching heavyweights of all time which they probably are, then there is no standard to claim that Fury has a "below average" chin, especially since he's never been KO'd, amateur or pro. I could see a better case for AJ because he got destroyed by Ruiz and stopped by Nistor but he also took a lot of good shots from Wlad, Povetkin and Whyte and rallied to win. Lewis as well: he took a lot of good shots from hard punchers but got flat KO'd three times in his career. We still have to establish a standard to judge; obviously AJ and Lewis have above average chins in the modern top 50.

 

"When Cooper fought Ali he was the size of a light heavyweight post-rehydration and his record when carefully analysed suggests that he was not a big puncher even in his day against cruisers and sub-cruisers"

And this is what i mean when i say this

Boxing does not work like that. This is what you do not comprehend. If records said everything then Bert Cooper is featherfisted according to your logic. But he wasn't. He has an inefficient delivery system for his power and he was extremely limited skill wise but he punched increadibly hard according to Oliver Mccall, Ray Mercer and was the first person to drop Holyfield. Just because you have a bad record doesn't automatically mean you dont punch hard. What matters is the means to deliver that power at world level. It is not impossible for a 185 pound man to punch harder than a 260 pound one though it is extremely rare and in addition to that Ali didn't even see the punch coming which makes a punch far more likely to stun or knock you out.

Also on what basis is Klitschko in the top 2 hardest punchers of all time ? LOL just because he's big and dominated ? Klitschko posseses murderous power but he also has an effective delivery system. There could be bums who punch harder than Klitschko for all you know but the don't have a means or the skills to land their power effectively all the time. you realize Wilder dropped Fury twice right ? This is what i mean when i say recovery is not the same thing as punch resistance. Fury has been dropped and hurt by light punchers like Cunningham and Pajkic and got rocked by pillowfisted Nikolai Firtha. Him getting hurt by an opponent who isn't known for their power wasn't a one time thing. At least Fraizer was known for his left hook just like Henry Cooper but Fury has good recovery abilities to balance this out.