How did you score Bradley-Pacquiao I...

KillSomething · Apr 10, 2014

ValentinePrince said: ↑

I watched it again recently, had it:

1: Pacquiao
2: Pacquiao
3: Pacquiao
4: Pacquiao
5: Pacquiao
6: Pacquiao
7: Pacquiao
8: Swing round
9: Pacquiao
10: Bradley (only decisive Bradley round in the whole damn fight)
11: Swing round
12: Swing round
Click to expand...

I have no problem with that card, except round 9 which I thought was pretty clear for Bradley. This is one of those fights where neither guy lands anything really big or hurts the other guy, so there's lots of leeway in scoring.

You didn't mention if you watched it without the commentary?

ValentinePrince · Apr 10, 2014

KillSomething said: ↑

You didn't mention if you watched it without the commentary?
Click to expand...

I've watched it without the commentary multiple times.

daprofessor · Apr 10, 2014

KillSomething said: ↑

...when you watched it with the sound off?

This happened because I decided to watch it again to do some analysis for a bet this weekend, and about a round in I decided I couldn't analyze properly with Jim's obvious fanboy rants blasting out at me. So I muted it, put on some music, and started over.

I scored it 8-4 Bradley (I will post the breakdown).

There are a few reaons for this:

1. Ring generalship. Bradley pretty much had free range of the ring, and he was able to stop Pacquiao from throwing combinations by countering, moving, and using his jab. Additionally, he was the one taking initiative and throwing punches.

2. Defense. Pacquiao was taking punches from Bradley all night. Not hard, damaging punches, but punches. Bradley would occasionally take punches from Pacquiao, but again, not hard, damaging punches. Overall, Bradley took far fewer punches, and the ones he did take tended to glance off or be absorbed by Bradley's rolling head movement. More on that later.

3. Clean, effective punching. Neither guy was effective in the sense of damaging the opponent. However, Bradley was MUCH more effective in terms of dictating the action. By this I mean that in exchanges, it was usually a hard shot by Bradley that ended the exchange. He was effective in keeping Pacquiao honest, and I think he was effective in tiring him out with body shots.

When I watched it the first time I didn't score it. I thought that Bradley was hurt in most rounds, because of the way he was moving. Now I know it was the multiple foot injuries that caused this, but if you didn't catch them you could be forgiven for thinking Pacquiao had scrambled his brains and worn him out. Lots of Pacquiao shots appear to land, but the way Bradley ducks and rolls his head, he not only avoids most of them, but softens the ones that do land. As for activity, any of the rounds I originally gave to Bradley were based on what Pacquiao didn't do. Pacquiao simply didn't fight, and it wasn't because it was too easy, it was because he was tired or cramped up. Or affected by body shots. Or because every time he opened up, he hit air and Bradley hit him.

Overall, I think it was a great gameplan by Bradley, an off night for Pacquiao, and technically an off night for Bradley too. Look at his movement in the Marquez fight and the beginning of the Pacquiao fight, and look at him in the Pacquiao fight after the injuries.

If Bradley can avoid breaking his ankles, I think he DOMINATES Pacquiao this time, unless a Manny shows up that we haven't seen in years.

tl;dr:
Bradley won and will do so again.
Click to expand...

i scored it a draw. i could see it going a round or two either way...but i definitely wasn't in line with hbo or the rest of the *******s.

daprofessor · Apr 10, 2014

KillSomething said: ↑

My RBR, sound turned off:

1: Bradley lands some significant counters and a few straight rights while making Pacquiao miss almost all of his shots. Pacquiao appears to be looking for answers. Bradley appears to be executing his gameplan. Close round, not much landed for either. Gave it to Bradley since he seemed to disrupt Pacquiao's actions (countered him every time he lunged in). Calling it ring generalship and defense since there wasn't much punching.

2: 3 HARD lefts by Pacquiao, then holds. Bradley mad dogs his body with the free right hand. Bradley sends out feeler jabs. HARD jab from Pacquiao catches Bradley. Bradley backs Pacquiao to the ropes with a combination and lands a hard straight right before Pacquiao pivots out. Bradley occasionally backs Pacquiao up with a blocked flurry, while Pacquiao send in some hard shots that Bradley bobs and weaves away from. Bradley is disrupting Pacquiao's combinations with counterpunches, but Manny is blocking them. Bradley lands a jab to end the round. Pacquiao round based on those 3 hard shots at the beginning.

3: Bradley leads with a hard combination, Pacquiao blocks it. They skirmish in the center of the ring, Bradley feeling with jabs, Pacquiao sending long 1-2's, Bradley countering with some success. Hard 1-2 by Pacquiao. Another. Bradley lands some right hooks to head and body while Pacquiao holds. Counter right to the body by Bradley. HARD counter right uppercut to the head by Bradley. Manny attacks with a harder straight left, driving Bradley to the ropes, Bradley evades and holds. Straight left to the body by Pacquiao, Bradley comes back with a 2-3 to the head and evades the counter. Close round, giving to Pacquiao for the harder shots.

4: Bradley ducks inside and lands a hard right, left, and right to the body. Pacquiao counters, Bradley evades and they grapple. Wild exchange, both land some shots to the head and body but no apparent advantage. Pacquiao comes in for another exchange, each miss but Pacquiao lands a nice right hook as they disengage. Bradley catches Pacquiao with a hard right uppercut as they hold. Pacquiao comes back with a left uppercut to the head and body. Bradley returns a flurry to the head that is blocked. Stiff jab by Bradley. Manny opens up with a flurry, some of the punches glance off Bradley's head, Bradley stumbles as he disengages. Pacquiao thinks he's rocked and jumps in with hard shots, Bradley slips them and grabs on. Pacquiao lands 2 hard lefts to the head and an uppercut to the body. Bradley nails him with an overhand right to end the round. Big Pacquiao round, both fighters much more active and willing to trade but Pacquiao getting the better of it.

5: Both fighters land light jabs. Bradley is touching him with some jabs, Pacquiao is not doing much of anything but stalking. With 30 seconds left, Pacquiao opens up, driving Bradley to the ropes. Nothing clean lands, Bradley ties up. Wild exchange as the round ends, Bradley driving Pacquiao back before being turned. Bradley lands a few hard body shots. Bradley has no balance and cannot stand with Pacquiao to trade, even though he is evading the shots and landing his own. Tough to score. Bradley more active, lands more shots, wins more exchanges, but looks like a drunk in there even though he's making Manny miss. Giving it to the drunken/crippled master since balance isn't a scoring criteria.

6: Jab-fencing for the first minute, neither lands. Pacquiao lands a steaight left, Bradly beats him back. They trade jabs. Bradley counters with a few cuffing rights. Pacquiao traps Bradley in a corner and sends out the left uppercut a few times. Bradley is not getting hit, but isn't hitting either. Bradley lands a hook to each side of the body, then a light right uppercut and straight right to the head. Pacquiao lands a left uppercut and a jab. Pacquiao round, harder punches and appears to have Bradley in trouble even when he isn't landing.

7: Bradley backs up Pacquiao with a combination to the head and body. Pacquiao holds on. Bradley sticks him with a straight right to the body. Pacquiao catches him with a right hook to the head, Bradley responds by banging the body with both hands. Hard straight left by Pacquiao. Bradley bobs and weaves under a big combination by Pacquiao, then drives him to the ropes with his own combination. Pacquiao fights back in a wild exchange where both fighters land. Bradley ends it with a big left hook and Pacquiao turns off the ropes. They exchange in the center of the ring and Bradley lands a big right uppercut counter and a clean left hook to the body. Another right uppercut by Bradley, harder this time driving Pacquiao to the ropes. Pacquiao drives him back with a partially-blocked left and a hard jab, then leans on his neck. Long range hook counter by Bradley. Bradley looks tired/discouraged but that was his round based on higher activity and more hard punches, particularly to the body and at the end of exchanges. Manny is either very tired or oblivious to the fact that he's being outworked.

8: Bradley comes out and lands a left hook-left uppercut combo before settling into the familiar routine, peppering Pacquiao with jabs to the head and body that just barely get there, doing no damage but keeping Pacquiao on the outside. They exchange, Pacquiao missing and catching a big left hook counter from Bradley. Pacquiao catches him with a hard straight right after a combination, then drives him to the ropes. Bradley turns him and lands a left hook to the body, right uppercut, and right hook as Pacquiao holds his head. Pacquiao swings back, Bradley loses his balance, Pacquiao follows and pushes his head down. They exchange ineffectively a few times, Pacquiao banging his gloves and smiling as if he thinks he has already won each round and doesn't need to throw punches. Pacquiao seems to be of the impression that if Bradley can't rock him he can't win rounds. Another round goes to Bradley based on workrate and the more effective punches.

9: Bradley lands a straight right to the body and hooks to both sides. Pacquiao laughs it off. Bradley touches him upstairs and down with the jab. Pacquiao lands a left to the body. Pacquiao attacks, Bradley evades and stumbles into the ropes. Pacquiao follows, Bradley evades. Bradley lands a little right uppercut on the inside and a left to the body. Pacquiao lands a right jab, left uppercut, right uppercut. Bradley backs him to the ropes, Pacquiao lands a left hand, Bradley counters with a right, Pacquiao lands a left, Bradley counters with a hook and Pacquiao circles off the ropes. They miss combinations, Pacquiao lands a right jab and a right hook. Bradley lands a straight right and a left uppercut and eats a straight left, then rips a left to the body as he pushes forward and slips punches. Manny seems tired, touching Bradley's gloves with a weak 3 punch combo. Bradley knocks his head back with a right uppercut. Bradley swings a right hook around the guard and a left jab up through. Bradley continues pushing Pacquiao back as Manny misses. Bradley is landing to the head and body and showing impressive punch evasion. Big round for Bradley.

10: Bradley comes out with a body flurry and a right hook gets in. Another body shot and a hard jab through the guard that sends Pacquiao back. Jab gets through for Bradley. Again. Pacquiao is trudging forward, missing the occasional long 1-2. Halfway through the round, Pacquiao lands a jab, his first shot. Then another. Pacquiao hold Bradley's head down and Bradley swings 2 punches up into Pacquiao's face. Bradley swings a hard right around the guard that knocks Pacquiao off balance. Stiff jab up through the guard by Bradley. Straight left misses for Pacquiao, Bradley hits him with a hook. Pacquiao holds, Bradley takes advantage with a right uppercut, right hook combo. Jab by Pacquiao Both miss in a wild exchange to end the round. Another round for Bradley, even though he was stepping in post holes the entire time.

11: Bradley lands a jab to the head and body. Another to the body. Bradley backs him to the ropes with a big right hook to the ribs. Jab lands for Pacquiao. Jab lands for Bradley. And downstairs. They've been playing tag for 2 minutes, even though they both have thrown their power shots all they can land are jabs. Left to the body by Pacquiao and a hard jab, Bradley evades the followup. Counter right hook to the head lands for Bradley. Pacquiao chases him to the ropes, Bradley counters with a sharp straight right. Right hook to the body by Bradley. Round to Bradley based on activity and punches landed.

12: Bradley drives him back with a combo and lands a jab. Drives him back with another combo and Manny lands a jab. Hard right to the body by Bradley. Jab to the body by Bradley. Left to the head by Pacquiao, right to the body by Bradley, right hook by Pacquiao. Jab gets through for Bradley. Again. Pacquiao is following him around the ring, not attempting to cut it off. Bradley is evading combinations and getting out on a jab. Bradley switches southpaw and sticks a right jab. Lead left to the head scores for Pacquiao, and another as they exchange to end the fight. Bradley round, dominated it with the jab and took nothing significant.
Click to expand...

this by far is the most thorough breakdown of the fight i've read yet. there were a few rounds in there that could have gone either way....8-4 is not out of the realm of possibility unless you're a *******.

OldSchool Rules · Apr 10, 2014

6-5-1 for Bradley. But I think this is one of those fights that can truly go either way. Bradley controlled the first 2-2.5 minutes of most rounds, landing few damaging blows but working steadily nonetheless. Pacquiao would explode in eye-catching flurries towards the end of the rounds, not landing much clean but backing Bradley up and occasionally clipping him with a nice shot. I thought a lot of rounds were debatable, especially the first few and the late middle rounds. Pacquiao clearly won the middle rounds and Bradley clearly won the last few. I think it just comes down to what you like; Pac's explosive attacks or Bradley's consistent work-rate and generalship. I lean toward the latter but understand why others scored it the other way. Although Ledermans card was just horrible.

Drew101 · Apr 10, 2014

7-5 Pac. 1-2, 9, 10 and 12 to Bradley. Seventh and eleventh were close, so in retrospect, it's not completely out of the question to score the fight for Timmeh by a 7-5 margin. Nor is it completely out of the question to call a split of the first couple of rounds, and have Pac winning by an 8-4 margin.

ivanthegreat · Apr 10, 2014

8-4 bradley wtf...more like 8-4 for manny thats what i had it

cuchulain · Apr 10, 2014

Among the experts below, 121 scored the bout for Pacquiao, 1 scored the bout a draw, and 1 scored the bout for Bradley.
None of the scores for Pacquiao was offered by Philippine media.

Danny Flexen, Boxing News: 115-113 Bradley
Cameron Sharpe, Boxing Fancast: 115-115 Draw
Chris Manix, Sports Illustrated: 115-113 Pacquiao
Lem Satterfield, Ring Magazine: 115-113 Pacquiao
Gordon Marino, The Wall Street Journal: 115-113 Pacquiao
Armando Alvarez, Telemundo: 115-113 Pacquiao
Jake Donovan, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
Terry Dooley, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
Jordan Capobianco, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Franklin McNeil, Newark Star-Ledger: 116-112 Pacquiao
Brett Okamoto, ESPN: 116-112 Pacquiao
Steve Bunce, BoxNation.com/BBC: 116-112 Pacquiao
Juan Manuel Marquez: 116-112 Pacquiao
Max Kellerman, HBO: 116-112 Pacquiao
Andreas Hale, FightNews.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Brian Arman Graham, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Pacquiao
George Willis, The New York Post: 116-112 Pacquiao
Rick Reeno, ***********.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ben Thompson, FightHype.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
Suge Green, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
Steve Zemach, The Queensbury Rules.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Michael Nelson, TheCruelestSport.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Tom Gray, SecondsOut.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Joel Sebastionelli, LIITR Box Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
CheckHook.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
********************: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ricky Hatton: 116-112 Pacquiao
Amir Khan, Primetime: 116-112 Pacquiao
Wayne McCullough: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ken Hissner, DogHouseBoxing.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Alexander Belenky, Sport-Express.ru: 116-112 Pacquiao
Rob Day, ***************: 117-112 Pacquiao
Ryan Burton, ***********.com: 117-112 Pacquiao
Matt Youmans, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Graham Houston, FightWriter.com/FightNews.com/ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
Stephen Edwards, BoxingTalk.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kieran Mulvaney, ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tim Dahlberg, Associated Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ron Borges, Boston Herald: 117-111 Pacquiao
Cliff Rold, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Chris Robinson, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ronnie Shields, boxing trainer: 117-111 Pacquiao
David Mayo, The Grand Rapids Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
Robert Little, BlackSportsOnline.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jorge Hernandez, The Low Blow.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
David Greisman, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Benny Henderson, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ryan Phillips, BleacherReport.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Graham Parker, The Guardian (UK): 117-111 Pacquiao
Ed Graney, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Luis Sandoval, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jonathan Sakti, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
Richie Tomasini, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tim Starks, The Queensbury Rules: 117-111 Pacquiao
Champ Ross, DaTruthBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: 117-111 Pacquiao
Darren Velasco, 8CountNews.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ryan Maquinana, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
George Diaz, The Orlando Sentinel: 117-111 Pacquiao
Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Doug Fischer, Ring Magazine: 117-111 Pacquiao
FightersRated.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Luke Thomas, MMAFighting.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tommy Gunn, *****************: 117-111 Pacquiao
Charles Farrell, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
Gareth Davies, London Telegraph: 117-111 Pacquiao
John Perretti, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
John Raspanti, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ron Lewis, Primetime/BBC: 117-111 Pacquiao
Brent Brookhouse, SBNation.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jake Emen, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Alexey Sukachev, Sports.ru: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kevin Mitchell, The Guardian (UK): 118-112 Pacquiao
Steve Lillis, BoxNation: 118-111 Pacquiao
Nick Xouris, FightHype.com: 118-111 Pacquiao
Brett Newton, Pound4Pound.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Joseph Herron, FightSaga.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mark Lyons, 8CountNews.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Danny "Swift" Garcia: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mike Koppinger, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Gabriel Montoya, MaxBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ryan Songalia, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Robert Ecksel, Boxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Pete O'Brien, USA Today: 118-110 Pacquiao
John McCormick, BoxingTalk.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Victor Contreras, The Sacramento Bee: 118-110 Pacquiao
Eric Raskin, HBO/TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Chuck Giampa, Showtime: 118-110 Pacquiao
John Russell, boxing trainer (Buster Douglas trainer): 118-110 Pacquiao
Rich Marotta, KFI Los Angeles: 118-110 Pacquiao
Jeff Mayweather: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ace Freeman, FightFan.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Kelsey McCarson, TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mario Cabrera, The Boxing Republic: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ramon Aranda, 3MoreRounds.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Colin Seymour, Examiner.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Nigel Collins, Espn.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Paddy Cronan, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 118-110 Pacquiao
Denzil Stone, OnTheBreak.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Phil Jay, *****.net: 118-110 Pacquiao
Geoffrey Ciani, EastSideBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Michael Rosenthal, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Eugeny Pilipenko, Vringe.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Vadim Zhuk, Championat.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ken Pollitt, the13thround.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ted Sares, Boxing.com: 119-111 Pacquiao
Allen Barra, The Atlantic: 119-110 Pacquiao
Barry Tompkins, Showtime: 119-110 Pacquiao
Vittorio Tafur, The San Francisco Chronicle: 119-109 Pacquiao
Ray Markarian, TheSweetScience.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Harold Lederman, HBO: 119-109 Pacquiao
Dan Rafael, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
Max Parker, BoxingWatchers.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Scott Sawitz, Fox Sports/Inside Fights: 119-109 Pacquiao
Leroy Cleveland, FightSaga.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Michael Woods, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
Michael Marley, BoxingConfidential.com/Examiner.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Skip Bayless, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao

Average of the 123 scores: 117-111 Pac
Most common score (44) :117-111 Pac

I gave Bradley the 10th round first time around.

If you were looking for sympathy rounds, there were two more you could have given him.

That was it.

9-3 was as close as you could make it.

Spoorloos · Apr 10, 2014

OldSchool Rules said: ↑

6-5-1 for Bradley. But I think this is one of those fights that can truly go either way. Bradley controlled the first 2-2.5 minutes of most rounds, landing few damaging blows but working steadily nonetheless. Pacquiao would explode in eye-catching flurries towards the end of the rounds, not landing much clean but backing Bradley up and occasionally clipping him with a nice shot. I thought a lot of rounds were debatable, especially the first few and the late middle rounds. Pacquiao clearly won the middle rounds and Bradley clearly won the last few. I think it just comes down to what you like; Pac's explosive attacks or Bradley's consistent work-rate and generalship. I lean toward the latter but understand why others scored it the other way. Although Ledermans card was just horrible.
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I had the exact same scorecard and I really like your analysis :good

ValentinePrince · Apr 10, 2014

cuchulain said: ↑

Among the experts below, 121 scored the bout for Pacquiao, 1 scored the bout a draw, and 1 scored the bout for Bradley.
None of the scores for Pacquiao was offered by Philippine media.
Click to expand...

And the thing a lot (not all) of those scorers were ringside. So the argument that they were being brainwashed by groupthink from the commentary is not legitimate.

KillSomething · Apr 10, 2014

ValentinePrince said: ↑

And the thing a lot (not all) of those scorers were ringside. So the argument that they were being brainwashed by groupthink from the commentary is not legitimate.
Click to expand...

Crowd noise is a thing. Moreso when Pacquiao is fighting. Moreso when his opponent has zero fans.

I think this fight can be scored many ways, and a lot of them can result in Manny winning. I just scored it the way I scored it, there were definitely more than a few swing rounds. In a fight where not much happens, much is left up to interpretation.

And there aren't 100 boxing writers in the world who count as experts at scoring. They're actually quite bad at it for the most part.

Babality · Apr 10, 2014

Bradley lost, soundly. 4 rounds at best for him.

LordSouness · Apr 10, 2014

Much closer than the pathetic HBO commentators anyway. Screaming about hard left hands when he missed completely.

I had Pac by a couple of rounds.

Spoorloos · Apr 10, 2014

KillSomething said: ↑

Crowd noise is a thing. Moreso when Pacquiao is fighting. Moreso when his opponent has zero fans.
...
And there aren't 100 boxing writers in the world who count as experts at scoring. They're actually quite bad at it for the most part.
Click to expand...

More and more sensible, intelligent posts.
Maybe there is hope for this forum after all.

Babality · Apr 10, 2014

KillSomething said: ↑

Crowd noise is a thing. Moreso when Pacquiao is fighting. Moreso when his opponent has zero fans.

I think this fight can be scored many ways, and a lot of them can result in Manny winning. I just scored it the way I scored it, there were definitely more than a few swing rounds. In a fight where not much happens, much is left up to interpretation.

And there aren't 100 boxing writers in the world who count as experts at scoring. They're actually quite bad at it for the most part.
Click to expand...

Right, all of them are bad, and you're good. Who should I believe.

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