How did you score James Toney's close or controversial fights

I need to watch the Toney vs Tiberi fight again cause it seems I'm the only person in the world other then the ones judging who scored it for Toney. From what I remember Tiberi was busier but Toney who looked like something was wrong with him from early in the fight held him off didn't take a lot of damge and fought in spirts each round still seemed to land cleaner punches and steal lots of the rounds. I don't hold that fight too much against Toney cause too me it was clear something messed up a young Toney that night either he didn't prepare at all or killed himself cutting weight probably both. I have no doubt that if he came in prepared he'd have easily beat Tiberi who's style you'd think was made to order for him. That was the thing with Toney sometimes he was great and sometimes he was not.

Toney's fights with Nunn, McCallum and Jirov are what make him great too go along with many other solid performances.

 

Judging is also based on perception. In the Tiberi fight, Toney looked as he would pass out and had terrible balance. That being said, Toney still landed the quality shots. Tiberi, who was a very light puncher, was catching him mostly with meaningless shots. I have never judged that fight because there was obviously something wrong with Toney that night.

 

I think this is a fair assessment although I do think Toney definitely deserved the nod against Peter I.

 

This kind of the disconnect I mean with fans. You say he had really impressive wins against Nunn and McCallum. He lost pretty much every round against Nunn and had to get the come from behind KO to win it. Exciting? Yes. Impressive for a guy people act like is this old school technical genius? Hardly. Likewise the McCallum fights were pretty razor thin. The first fight, the best, was a draw, and the second was closer than the cards reflected against a 35 year old fighter who was rapidly slowing down. Even their third was super close and McCallum was a mummy by then. The Jorov fight for me was impressive because an older fatter guy coming up well above his best weight could cone back and take that title. But Jirov was made to order for Toney and gave Toney a hell of a fight in that match. For the supposed slickster Toney took a lot of punishment in an exciting two way battle. I think its really a matter of perception as to how good Toney looked in some of those fights. To me its exciting to see a come from behind KO but its not impressive if you are a supposed technician to get your ears boxed off pretty much every round. I dont recall anyone saying LaMotta looked impressive against Dauthille. It was the FOY because of the exciting finish, not because LaMotta was impressive. Toney-Nunn had an eye popping finish which made for great TV but Toney wasnt impressive IMO.

 

I think Toney's was really struggling to make weight at this point in his career. The guy was a 200 pound high school football player (one of the best in the state of Michigan) prior to boxing and probably would have been better suited at 175 or even 190. I met Toney once and in person he looked like an NFL running back. More stocky than fat. Making 160 let alone 168 must have been torture.

 

Is it a "disconnect" to say that wins over Nunn and McCallum was good? Nunn was very highly regarded, ranked nr 3 p4p by The Ring going into 1991. A conclusive win over a top 3 p4p4 fighter must reasonably be seen as good, even though he was behind on points at the time. I don't think it was a fluke punch either, since he had rocked Nunn with good shots several times during the four preceeding rounds. Nunn was slowing down, probably in large part because of those punches. Too bad we never got a rematch, though.

McCallum was aging and not as highly regarded at the time as Nunn was, but still a very good fighter. I personally believe Toney lost the rematch even though he might have edged the first fight. So while I believe McCallum was still very good, it can well be argued that Toney never conclusively beat him. There you do have a point.

 

That's not what was said though. You said they were impressive wins. The first McCallum fight wasn't even a win. The Nunn fight wasn't impressive losing every round. That's my point. Beating McCallum in the second fight was a good win resume wise but it was not a good fight or good performance by either guy and it was very close over a fading fighter that you have 11 years on. So yeah, they good on paper and it was great for his career they weren't the type of fights that I look at think "this guy is a throw back and can beat anyone" But his fans do. I actually think the Draw to McCallum was more impressive (and Im fine with a draw, very close fight) than any of the wins he had over those guys because it showed how good he was in a chess match, although the question still begs to be asked: If they were both 25 how would that fight play out.

 

No, I said "really good wins". The word "impressive" doesn't even feature. That's twice you misquoted me without double checking. You should really make time for that instead of misquoting in long posts without paragraphs.

This was my post in whole:

"Toney's greatness is hard to asses. He had some really good wins like Nunn, McCallum and Jirov. And Peters and Rahman if you feel, like I do, that he won those. But the fact is that he struggled more than you think an ATG should do with the likes of Johnson, Griffin, Thadzi and, especially, Tiberi. And he was absolutely clowned by RJJ. No shame in losing to him, but a still developing Hopkins was definitely more competitive. Hell, a shot McCallum was more competitive. I also think Toney lost the rematch to a 36-year old McCallum.

In fact, the best fighter he easily beat was Barkley. So while Toney was extremely easy on the eye, it is hard what to make of his resume."

You seem to make me out as some fan boy from this post and I can't really figure out what you think you've been reading to reach that conclusion.

 

You saying that Nunn won every round makes me wonder. In reality, Toney broke down Nunn with body shots.
He landed several clean hard right hands before the KO. It was obvious Nunn was slowing down from the Toney punishment. This was more of a 6-4 round fight at the time of the stoppage in favour of Nunn.Arguably Toney's best career win.

 

I do not see your point. If you face great fighters at or near the top of their game, you normally do not win easily