How do some people rank Louis over Ali?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by quintonjacksonfan, Oct 30, 2024 at 3:16 AM.



  1. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    People get so caught up in marquee matchups, plus there is so much focus on the 1970s being "the greatest decade in history for heavyweights." That's how absolute journeymen like Lyle and Young are placed on historical pedestals here, just by the calendar accident of when they fought.

    That being said, I rank Ali No. 1, Louis No. 2. And if they fought a sustained series of bouts, neither would go undefeated.
     
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  2. SonnyListon>

    SonnyListon> #1 Sonny Liston fan Full Member

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    I hate to say it, but this list is atrocious.
     
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  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    It's all personal taste anyway. Foreman's is at least as good as anyone else's when it comes to boxing "greatness". He was heavyweight champion twice. He fought or sparred several of the guys on that list.

    If a professional ice cream connoisseur says mint chocolate chip is great, his opinion isn't any more "correct" than the rest of us. But it certainly isn't wrong.
     
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  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Atrocious.
     
  5. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My top 10 again for what it's worth:

    1. Ali
    2. Louis
    3. Holmes
    4. Johnson (I know that's way higher than most people have him, just my .02)
    5. Marciano (and again, this is based on his accomplishments against who he had to face, I think the number of people who would cream him head to head is in double figures)
    6. Foreman
    7. Frazier
    8. Liston
    9. Tyson
    10. Lewis
     
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  6. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    they are so hard, impossible and most often fruitless/pointless.

    I would have JJW in an all-time top 10, 15 or 25 for example, if I were even interested in crediting them, simply because I only view Fighters H2H (Skill, Longevity, Showing and Top Opponents)...

    and in that regard JJW is equal too and/or better than 'most' HW's in History.

    for me there is no other way really for all fighters.
     
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  7. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Active Member Full Member

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    Why not? It's basically a coin toss between them for the top spot, 1a/1b situation, and there is a large gap between 2 and 3. I have Ali as number 1, but getting more and more towards "well, maybe Louis deserves to be number 1?" Joe Louis is a definition of the champion, almost a perfect boxer, with top skills, top power and the resume to show for it. Nobody's beating that 25 title defences record. Ali had 19 in his 2 reigns, beat better heavyweights but... That consistency, domination for such a long time... Joe Louis may be the actual GOAT.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Closest we ever came.
     
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  9. Ney

    Ney Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not that I consider Norton especially skilled, but skills are just one factor, regardless. Frazier was more skilled than Foreman, for instance. Baer had a better career than Norton did & I’d expect him to splatter Norton personally.
     
  10. Ney

    Ney Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, see, this is the thing. Before people start throwing out lists, they need to state their criteria. You only rank on head-to-head, I only rank on career accomplishments. Some people use a combination of these two. A list isn’t very meaningful for others to assess without the criteria for it stated.
     
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  11. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    because they are IMPOSSIBLE, not historically inclusively accurately, basically not just in error but always wrong and not a true representation of Boxing greatness over such a time...

    150 years times thousands of fighters leaves you with 100's and 1000's even, of Great Fighters.

    Lists are a waste of time, it is really that simple, too many, great, great fighters have graced the Square Circle and that is the truth!
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    The criteria for boxing greatness in these lists are dependent on the individual's tastes, anyway. All of these discussions just come down to bickering about who's consistent according to their own arbitrary criteria and weighting. Assuming you've even seen or researched all the thousands of fighters, as you say -- and nobody has.

    Of the various types of boxing discussions, greatness lists are one of the less enlightening. They consume a ton of time, and can't get anywhere.
     
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  13. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You and I rank people pretty much in the same fashion.

    It's like with Marciano. What he did against the people who were placed in front of him in the ring must be given its proper due, that's why I have him so high on my list. Again, however, I think the number of ATGs who would whip him head to head is in double figures and quite a few of them would not just whip him, they would leave him bloody, twitching and unconscious on the canvas, to the consternation of his acolytes who think he's indestructable.
     
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  14. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    Joe Louis is my number one all-time Heavyweight, because of his body of work, the statements from people who saw him fight live, and the films I have seen of his fights. I think Muhammad Ali is a very close second, and I would not argue with anyone who has Muhammad at number one and Joe at number two.
     
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  15. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That top ten list without Foreman. There's boxers on that list that the Foreman who lost to Shannon Briggs would have been competitive with and some where he would be a live dog.
     
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