How do you beat Floyd?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andyw362, Jun 16, 2015.


  1. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    yet the best fighter of your weak era couldn't press the action and get him out of there and instead fought scared and ran from that scrub ..Now that's truly pathetic !And Canelo and Gurrero didn't lay a glove on him Manny tagged him several times and sent him backwards but hey ill let you tell it ..
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mayweather’s first round against De La Hoya was a dream. Oscar shuffled forward bereft of any plan other than being big and somehow getting Floyd to march back to the ropes based upon his size. He fought square and jabless. Floyd on the other hand moved gracefully, jabbed with an uncharacteristic frequency, sometimes varying with an affective hook. Oscar didn’t land a significant punch and was quickly smothered on the one occasion he managed to get Floyd to the ropes. No problems were set for the pound-for-pound champ in that first. Mayweather controlled the center of the ring with his footwork and his left hand alone.

    In the second, everything changed. It changed because De La Hoya started throwing his jab.

    Oscar De La Hoya’s jab became a subject of some controversy when Emanuel Steward labeled it one of the very finest in history. I’m not sure that this statement can be justified, but when his jab is at its very best, as it was against Felix Trinidad or Miguel Gonzalez, it is an exceptional one. Over the next few rounds it would become the most significant weapon in De La Hoya’s bid to unseat the pound-for-pound #1. This, in many ways, was something of a surprise. Mayweather had opened jabbing forcefully and was De La Hoya’s technical superior. Generally “The Golden Boy” doesn’t do well jabbing with jabbers. Whitaker and Quartey are examples of top-class jabbers who have out-jabbed him, but more recently even Felix Sturm had arguably won that particular technical battle against De La Hoya.

    Regardless, the first three punches Oscar threw in that second round were jabs and Mayweather, suddenly, was banished from the center of the ring. This is the first key ingredient in jabbing Mayweather. He needs to be taken to the ropes by more than just crowding and badgering. Mayweather respects and is alert to a jab that gains his attention. It’s the punch which most quickly reduces the deficit in hand speed he has over most opponents.

    Secondly, it is a points gatherer. The jab is to modern boxing what world peace is to Miss Universe; to whit, you need to put it out there if you want to impress the judges. Taking control of the fight against Mayweather has proven so difficult for a succession of opponents that many of them have forgotten to fight whilst they are moving him back. The jab should be the weapon of choice.

    Finally, Mayweather is a punch-picker extraordinaire. Those wishing to undermine him deride this skill as only being the type of hit-and-run tactics that saw him booed and in tears after the Carlos Baldomir fight. This is not the case. Mayweather picks the right punch. That’s a gift. But it takes time, in the fight, to perfect. He likes to measure his man. He likes to come to understand him. He likes to find the *****s in his armor that he can exploit. He’s a very specific fighter. The jab is the most general punch to deal with but the one that can be thrown with the most variety.

    Mayweather couldn‘t match that jab. This meant that he was firmly on the backfoot. Mayweather punches from the backfoot as well as anyone in boxing, but a breach of the laws of physics are something that even Money can’t buy. There is an excellent demonstration of this just twenty seconds into that second round when De La Hoya decided he would lead with the right. It missed by an Irish country mile. What was interesting was that Mayweather also missed with his counter. He had scored with a near identical punch at around the same time in round one. The reason Floyd was now missing was that he was now leaning away, trying to slip Oscar’s jabs as opposed to in behind his own jabs. Even the most graceful of fighters needs a moment to make that adjustment and punch.

    And that’s it. In one strategically shift the fight was changed and Oscar was in charge. Fighting Mayweather cannot be about strategy alone however. Rather, a strategically quilt needs to be sewn together from a series of specific tactics. Mayweather’s adaptability, intrinsic ability and exceptional technical acumen needs to be offset by specific detail rather than any grand plan. “I’ll do my thing and let him worry about me” will get you beaten, but “use good head movement, move forward behind a jab, try to pin him on the ropes” will get you just as beaten, even if it is by a smaller margin.

    As a speedster and technician whose job it is to avoid being landed on first, Mayweather now had a full plate in front of him. Furthermore he is engaged at a higher level by virtue of the fact that he has been set a specific problem. What Oscar has to do now is set him another one.

    Not a great feinter, De La Hoya tries his luck after their brief tussle right behind their both missing power punches only thirty-five seconds into round two. Mayweather’s reaction is fulsome. He darts back with head and body and momentarily gives up the support of his leading foot. When Juan Manuel Marquez fought Mayweather what meager success he had was born of feinting, feinting Mayweather out of position then chasing him with a long right hand. This is a punch that a less experienced fighter wouldn’t chuck at Money if he boxed him for forty rounds, but Marquez knew that once he had feinted Mayweather out of position and into a lean or a slip for a nonexistent punch he became, momentarily, just like any other fighter. For Oscar, it is worth more than it would be worth to Marquez because it is a second layer in his controlling offence. It is not something that scores De La Hoya any points, but it leads Mayweather a little further down the garden path, it’s a secondary way to take control of distance and timing, Mayweather territory.

    Mayweather’s immediate reaction is fascinating. He backs up whilst throwing out a tentative, nothing jab. He’s fully engaged, jabbing with a great jabber, trying to deliver on pure backfoot tactics against a larger opponent who is jabbing at him when he is trying to counter. He’s certainly not being dominated and he rolls most of Oscar’s best punches, but he’s gone from fighting his dream fight in the first round to the best fight De La Hoya could have hoped for in the second.

    Then, the mystery. Halfway through the fight, Oscar abandoned his jab. Theories as to why crammed internet message boards for days afterwards, not least due to the man’s own feeble “it wasn’t to be the night of the jab” explanation. This vacuum of information has led to rife speculation, most commonly that Floyd countered the jab out of Oscar’s ****nal through the fifth. This did not happen. In fact, Oscar was countered more in that second round than he was in fifth, a round in which only one of his six jabs were countered. My best guess, partially confirmed by remarks made after the fight by De La Hoya cornerman Freddie Roach, was that he had become tired, had lost a step and that he just found himself too far behind the fleet-footed Floyd to get set and jab at him. Mayweather’s resulting takeover was rapid, near complete, and enough to get him the split decision on the cards.

    None of this is to suggest that a world-class jab stuck to a twelve-round fighter is enough to beat a fighter like Mayweather. As we’ve seen, even to steal four of the first six rounds, it takes more. But a fighter who has those things, and the imagination, physicality or dynamism to provide more individual but intertwined challenges might be able to do it. He might derail the greatest physical talent since Roy Jones.

    I don't think a smaller fighter could beat Mayweather - I'm not sure that could happen.
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Get a time machine, go back to 1984 and bring back Tommy Hearns.
     
  4. markq

    markq Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Floyd was on the ropes with a high guard on the ropes against Guerrero and Canelo too. Getting hit is part of boxing. It's not like Excusequiao hit him like Mosley did.

    You're hanging on to lucky punch punch in the 4th and the dumbass was punching himself out hitting Floyd's arms. That's a moral victory for you I guess :yep 118-110! Maybe you can sign the Excusequiao casual petition with CJ and remove that schooling from the history books. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  5. Sunchild78

    Sunchild78 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The only type of fighter I believe that can take Floyd, is a big skilled fighter, which would be out of his weight class, or a fighter that is capable of doing all that he can do. Anyone less doesn't have a chance.
     
  6. markq

    markq Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Maidana and Castillo showed the blue print but were shy of victory. Be aggressive, fight dirty and unorthodox. It's not rocket science. Besides Floyd is almost 40, somebody will get lucky when Father Time shows up in the ring.
     
  7. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Lucky punch did you not see the fight break down in the other thread :thinkYou really dksab if you think Canelo and Guerrero did better than Manny ! Lucky punch yeah ok :lol: No one said Manny won but to say those two did better than Manny is just plain stupid!
     
  8. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Of fighters from my lifetime (born 1976)
    130: Arguello would have the best shot but i'd favor Floyd
    135: Sweet Pea 50-50, Duran I'd favor quite comfortably
    140: :think Young Benitez probably not high enough ring IQ, favor Floyd comfortably. Pryor would be interesting, I'd favor Floyd.
    147: Duran 50-50, I'd favor Leonard comfortably and Hearns is the safest bet of any man at any weight in my opinion.

    Pretty damn good company considering all the guys is favor over him were naturally bigger at the weight.
     
  9. markq

    markq Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Excusequiao casual breakdown by you I bet? You got to be kidding. Used toilet paper has more value.

    Like Manny is a counter puncher :patsch It was a lucky punch!
     
  10. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    I'd favor Pryor over Floyd because not only could he box but could cut off the ring and would have smothered Floyd ..
     
  11. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    There he been handful of fighters who would be betting favorites against Floyd.
     
  12. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    He landed more than one punch buddy !Or did you miss them due to your infatuation with Floyd ?
     
  13. markq

    markq Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    DUH! Floyd landed more and schooled him, hence 118-110 :deal:deal
     
  14. prelude

    prelude Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    More like how do you beat the judges in Vegas fighting Floyd. You can't because Maidana and a one armed PAC already beat Floyd.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vlZrkYxQOe4
     
  15. markq

    markq Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nobody likes Floyd right but the judges do? :huh Vegas put him in jail for an offense that would have received community service in other cities? So, the judges have been with Floyd since Castillo or before that?