How do you feel about Roy jones?

Jones-Jirov

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In 2000 Seth Abraham would state they they wanted Jones to vacate the belts because he did not want to screen anymore mis-matches

TV SPORTS; That's Entertainment! CBS Angers Golf Fans

Dibella had the same stance he wanted Jones to vacate his belts:

AT HBO, DIBELLA TOSSING IN TOWEL

Despite the fact that they were getting tired of Jones' opponents HBO still wanted him to fight on their network and this is when thigs would take a turn for the worse. They thought they had a new deal wrapped up paying Jones a licensing fee of $3m per fight, but Jones late in the talks decided that he must have $5m

 

HBO at this point had, had enough
They would refuse to screen the Woods fight as a ppv fight

Questioning Roy Jones' thinking
From that point onwards Jones had to fight a live opponent to get a ppv date. The days of him getting ppv dates to fight nobodies like Paz and Harding were over

Xavier James would then state they had rewritten their contracts to protect themselves from fighters, like Jones, who insisted on abusing their HBO contracts

Clinton Woods Jones should breeze yet again
HBO would stop giving out long term contracts and from that point onwards they would only give contracts with three options.










Seth Abraham would state that they should never have given Jones the contract in the first place. I can understand why they gave it to him, but they were insane to actually renew it.

A Roy Jones fight was not worth anywhere near $5m. It was ludicrous that HBO would agree to pay him that much money in the first place. Millions over what his fights were actually worth.Jones would only realise that harsh fact after they cancelled his contract in 05.

What HBO needed was for Jones to go on a losing streak, because that would give them the legal precedent to cancel his contract

He bypassed Jirov to fight Woods.

 

Jones vs the Heavyweights

Based on what evidence?

You cannot use the "he had talks argument" because he entered into talks for fights he had no intention of making. So what you are really saying is that you believe without question everything that Jones says.

There is alot about Jones and Hopkins that you dont know.

Of course he was serious about Tyson and Lewis which is why he:

-Missed every big puncher in every division he fought in: Jackson, McClellan, Benn, Liles, Tua , Saunders, Tyson, Lewis
-Talked about moving up to hw since 95, but would not do so until a club fighter picked up a belt
-Had Vitali pushed into a elimination bout
-Ignored Tua, who became his mando after vitali vacated his position
-Priced himself out of the Saunders fight

Does this look like the actions of a fighter who was prepared to fight Tyson and Lewis?

The plan to screw Vitali Klitschko

(link dead)

Not even close to what happened

Jones gave Collins his word that Collins would be next in line, its the reason why Collins and Levin started working on making the fight

Square go for Collins. - Free Online Library

While Collins and Levin was working on the fight, Jones would agree to fight R.Johnson instead

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Jones would admit that he had no intention of ever fighting him:

‘I didn’t expect a white-ass motherf ker in here…’ _ Ewan MacKenna


point 1: I have told you all of this already and you have ignored everything I said.

point 2:
When Collins would of course ask Jones to his face why the fight did not happen Jones would change his story and put the blame on a problem between Collins and Reggie Johnson

Shelly Finkel (Tyson's manager)

Jones Jr., Tyson spark heavyweight division

Thomas Hauser - James Toney Reaches For Glory

Q & A with Corrie Sanders

You dont know what you are talking about

Lewis's biggest purse for a fight, in which he was a draw, was 8m:

Lennox Lewis vs. David Tua - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia.

You dont know what you are talking about

Evander Holyfield - Lennox Lewis

-Evander had a much bigger fan base than Jones (or Lewis)
-The Lewis-Holyfield fight was for the undisputed hw championship
-The fight was seen as competitive

PPv numbers
Holyfield-Lewis I: 1.2m
Holyfield-Lewis II: 850,000k


Jones - Lewis

-Roy had a small fan base, much smaller than Holyfield. All of his ppvs had flopped before he fought Ruiz
-The Jones-Lewis fight would of only been for Lewis's wbc belt. The WBA had informed Jones that his next title defense had to be against Vitali(later changed to Tua)
-The fight was a mismatch

No sane argument can be made that a Jones-Lewis fight would of done more than a Holyfield-Lewis fight, let alone a Mayweather-Oscar fight

 

And how do you now he didn't at some point?

Lennox Lewis fought Vitali on June 21. One and a half months after that he was still saying he wanted to fight Jones

August 3

BOXING: pounds 170m purse lures Lennox

2 days later Lewis has dropped the idea of fighting Jones and decided to take the rest of that year off.

Posted: August 05, 2003

Lewis says he won't fight again this year

What happened during the 2 preceding days? What made Lewis drop the idea of fighting Jones altogether?

Lets take a look at what happened with Saunders, a couple of days later:

Murad announced that the Jones-Saunders fight was set and agreed upon:

http://www.boxingtalk.net/pages/leon510.htm

2 days later Saunders is informed the fight is off unless Jones gets 20m

SecondsOut Boxing News - Anthony Evans - Q & A with Corrie Sanders

So he agreed on the fight then 2 days later he priced himself out of it. He would then drop down to fight Tarver.
If he did this against Saunders then why not against Lewis as well? If he wanted 20m to fight Sauders then how much would he have wanted to fight Lewis?

What you refuse to understand is that Jones did not have the fanbase to demand that kind of money. You need to be doing ppv sales around the 1.4m mark to demand that kind of money and his average sales were around the 250k mark

 

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In early 95 Jones would get a HBO contract which paid him a license fee of $3m per fight. How did HBO arrive at such a figure? Most of his fights up until that point had been on minor networks with around 1k people in attendence if he was lucky. Did HBo use those fights as a guage for Jones worth? Highly unlikely. In fact I think its safe to assume that they most likely used the Toney-Jones fight, which was a successfull fight selling around 300k ppv. In turn generating around $9m in revenue.

The problem here of course was that fight was successfull because of Toney, NOT Jones, as they soon would become aware:

Attendence figures:

THE BEAST MUST DIE Roy Jones just doesn’t turn the crank of the average boxing fan

The Cyber Boxing Zone

IT'S WAR; Words fly over Steve super fight

HBO were paying $3m license fees and spending 100s of thousands of dollars advertising his fights and Jones by early 97 could not even sell 3k tickets
















Ratings:

Non ppv fights

THE BEAST MUST DIE Roy Jones just doesn’t turn the crank of the average boxing fan

ppv fights

HBO's Mark Taffet Speaks with Doghouse on Mayweather, Jones Jr, Hopkins and Trinidad PPV*Numbers

Jones ppv figures were terrible, especially when you take into account that HBO had around 35m viewers
I think I can safely say that his ppv fights LOST money.

And this is the guy they are paying $3m licensing fees to? Ludicrous. Pre-Lacy Calzaghe was doing better figures than this and he was only making something around 600k per fight

To make matters worst hBO contracts were open to abuse. Back then they gave a fighter like 6-8 options and allowed the fighter to chose his own opponents. Most behaved themselves but fighters like Jones did not. He turned around and said you are not paying me enough to take high risk fights. Now Im sure HBO most likely offered him a bit more to take fights wih the likes of Nunn, but they could not pay him much more because they were already massively overpaying him. You are talking about a fighter who wanted $5m to fight Collins

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So, how much did Jones want to fight Nunn? More than HBO were willing to pay. In other words according to Jones premium rate licensing fees only got HBo non competitive fight against the likes of Thornton, Frazier, Brannon, Grant and all of those other nobobies that he liked to fight.


By 2005 HBO had had enough of Jones so they cancelled his contract and fired him as a commentator

Lets take a look at how much Jones could now get for a fight without HBO's involvment:

Comcast(vs Manny Siaca)

Contractual issues' force Manfredo-Jones

Showtime (vs Hanshaw)

Jones burns Showtime - Dan Rafael Blog - ESPN.

In other words HBO's rivals, like Showtime, were only willing to pay Jones 500k for the same kind of fights which HBO had been paying him 2-4m for.

Jones would host his own ppv fights against Badi and Hanshaw and both of them bombed. In order to get 500K jones had to go to Russia to fight the cw champion. This is the same Jones who in 02 refused to fight Jirov for around 4.5m saying it was not enough

How can you defend something you know nothing about?

So I will say it again.

All of those Rudy Nix fights were just keep busy fights on minor networks. Goossen could have easily started to work on the details for a Jones-Nunn fight for early 97, while Nunn trained for Nix. Fighters can prepare for fights while their promoters arranges their next fight. Mayweather-Judah was signed before Judah had even fought Baldomir. Toney-Jones was already agreed upon before Toney fought Williams etc, etc

And it should be pointed out that is what Goossen had tried to do:

FLASHY NUNN NIXES NIX

He was already trying to make it BEFORE Nunn had even fought NIX.

 

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Your giving me a headache with this. We know Jones was serious because he said it? Is that your argument here? When you look at Jones career do you see the actions of a man of his word?

-He said he was going to fight Collins in 96, then priced himself out of the fight
-He said he was going to fight Nunn and Guthrie, in 97, then refused to fight both of them stating that he did not think they deserved a purse
-He told Collins he was going to be his next opponent, in 99, then went and fought Johnson
-He said he was going to fight to the finish against Calzaghe but he basically quit after the first round

-Jones wanted 10m to fight Moorer after his LOSS to Holyfield

(same link as above)

If he wanted 10m to fight Moorer then how much would he want to fight Holyfield? I think we can safely assume a lot more. This is the same Jones whose last fight, against Griffin II, was a ppv flop, with only 4.3k people in attendence, but despite all of this Jones was serious about moving up. So serious that he would not move up until 03

But to you none of this matters. You will just keep on sweeping away any fact you don't like and keep quoting Jones like his some kind of saint and this is the reason why I am not going to take part in any more of these "debates."


-If you were objective then you would not constantly use your opinions in debates./

-You would not just ignore any fact you don't like. On what basis are you ignoring Wareen's side of events? You claim a fight with Liles was impossible without even bothering to find out about Liles's side of the story. That is not being objective

-You quote Jones like his some kind of saint. Jones said this so that means its true? What about all of the lies he has told over the years? The last fighter in the world you should be quoting like that is a fighter who was caught using steroids. You don't use steroids if you are a honest person.

 

Definitely one of the ATG`s. How high would he have been if he retired after the Ruiz fight ? I felt he took something from his body when he dropped back down in weight and took on Tarver. But, when he was vintage RJJ, think Hopkins,Toney, Griffen 2,and Hill he was untouchable. When people compare him with PBF, there really is zero comparison. RJJ fought a much better level of opposition,and dominated in exciting fashion At 160.168 prime RJJ beats any and all the greats from any era...

 

At 160 RJJ would have absolutely destroyed GGG ! Geez, GGG wouldn`t have laid a glove on him and RJJ 160,168 could crack.It would have been a beatdown of epic proportions...Agreed and GGG is my favorite guy out there right now...

 

i haven't noticed that.

general zod is edumacating some folks.

 

He was an arrogant one trick pony who fought a lot of bums. As soon as he got near anyone with real skills, he got KTFO. You could see it early when he found a little adversity and someone who just wasn't intimidated with Montell Griffin how terrified and anxious he was. No real heart. Just a matter of time before he turned into a knock out puppet.

 

Looks like someones opinions have been noticed again... atsch no names

 

nut:nut

Who left this loser's cage open.

The Welsh Rabbit didn't go near RJJ until he was KO'd TWICE.:deal

 

ATG up there with the very best talent-wise, maybe THE very best. But not quite so many stern challenges as the other elites, which is why he went up in weight, so there will always be reasons to argue his true standing (as opposed to his talent).

The most striking thing about prime Roy was his sense of position. He had that crazy hand and foot speed, but he used it with really fine margins so he'd be just enough outside reach to tempt you into whiffing a lead he could counter; or he'd use that footspeed to skip instantly into a punching angle that squared you up, then just a little bit too far out again for you to retaliate.

So he had the kind of speed that a Pacquiao type boxer would need to carom like a billiard ball across the ring strafing you; but he had that radar someone like Rigondeaux needs to shift by inches in and out of range; and that ****ing power in his shots. ATG in prime.

 

I think people are too dazzled by Jones's athleticism when they talk about how great he was in his prime.

People also act like he dominated Hopkins. I thought the fight was relatively close.