how do you score this? Cleveland Williams vs Billy Daniels

At least he is very consistent in his agenda.

 

With Floyd you never can tell. If Rademacher, Harris, and McNeeley can knock him down, you sure couldn't discount the possibility of Williams doing the same thing and even kayoing him. I've never been that high on Shavers. A smart boxer like Floyd should be able to avoid him for a few rounds until he runs out of gas. But then again Floyd couldn't seem to avoid Liston. I think part of the reason for that is that he was so gung-ho to prove himself a worthy champion after all the bad press he was receiving that he went after Sonny without thinking the fight through, at least in the first fight. In the second fight, he was so cowed that he was beaten from the start.

Lyle was pretty old by the time he got going and I've always thought that worked against him when he came up against the division's elite and that would include the quick Patterson.

The first Johansson-fight Patterson was pretty small. He put on about eight pounds of muscle and punching power for the second Ingo fight. I think that Patterson has to be favored over Williams, Lyle, and Shavers. But that Patterson wasn't around very long. He lost it for a few years until his post-Liston years. The Patterson that came back against Machen, Chuvalo, Cooper, etc., I think would have been seasoned enough to be favored over Williams, Shavers, and Lyle, too. But my feeling is that he would have been matched to fight all three of them while they were in their primes, he likely would have been stopped in one of those fights.

Sorry for the rambling, but you asked and that is the best my confused mind can come up with. Patterson was a puzzle to me. And probably to himself for a while too.

 

Shavers was no Liston but i think he would be very dangerous early here. I agree it is hard to decipher Patterson in many head to heads. He's a damn fine fighter and hits very hard himself, particularly given his size. I'd favor him over both but certainly wouldn't count them out or put my life on it.

 

Was he steered clear of contenders ,or were they steered clear of him?

 

He was good enough to beat Rischer,Richardson,a promisingTerrell,Agramonte,Bethea,Miteff ,Johnson, Daniels and draw with Machen.
We don't know what he might have done because a 357 magnum ended his chances.

 

Klompton is making the point that Williams didn't do enough to be considered some kind of ATG uncrowned champion. It's a long way from you claiming that he was no better than Carmine Vingo or Charlie Powell.

 

You've got a good reverse gear!!!! hahahahaha