How do you think old-school boxers (pre-1950s) would perform against today’s top competitors?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Oct 1, 2019.


  1. sid

    sid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If boxers today had as many fights in a year I wonder if thay could take it today like way back when.
    15 Rounds how many get done in round 13 & onwards 14th Round Hearns got done by SRL.
    Fighters from the past had it hard than boxers today & the best faced the best.
    Spence/Crawford don't even face each other :lol: & people say P4P no1 more like pink:elefant:
     
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  2. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The fighters of today gas after 6-9 rounds. So all the training, science (PEDs), will be worthless if they are tired and soft while fighters of the yesteryears are used to fighting 15+ rounds and 5-10 times a year.
     
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  3. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Boxing in its early stages was defense first sport. The reason they would go so many rounds is because they would not land as many punches on each other since their priority was defense, and by defense I don't mean running around the ring. They would use head, waist, and roll with punches.

    Boxing started evolving with fighters like Jack Dempsey who had very good defense but were very offensive minded.
     
  4. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Some of you lack boxing history knowledge and it shows.
     
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  5. Belfast

    Belfast New Member Full Member

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    Before a round limit was imposed a fight would go on until a boxer was out cold, quit or the police would intervene to stop the fight

    I believe the last fight before a round limit was imposed, went something like 46 rounds
     
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  6. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, I'm aware of this.

    But you said, that the old timers were used to go more than 50 rounds. Fights lasting more than 50 rounds were EXTREMELY rare, even back in the real old days… so at no time in the history of gloved boxing was this something, the boxers were "used to".
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  7. Belfast

    Belfast New Member Full Member

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    I said they used to go 50+ not that they "were used to it" fella, I never said it was restricted to gloved boxing either, since we are talking about modern day boxers being fitter and better, surely guys in the 1800s must not have been fit at all, despite in 1849 Mike Madden and Bill Hayes fought 185 bare knuckle rounds, which was 6 hours and 3 minutes, just 6 years later, 11 years before the publication of Queesnbury rules, James Kelly and Jack Smith fought for 6 hours and 30 minutes. Fights going close to or over 50 back then may not have been common, but not as rare as you seem to think either

    Joe Gans beat Battling Nelson in the 42nd round of the aforementioned Tex Rickards first promotion, The longest bout between gloved opponents and 3 minute rounds went to a 110 round draw between Andy Bowen and Jack Burke.

    In 1907 Montana Jack Sullivan and Nat Dewey fought a draw over 45 rounds, had it not been round restricted it would probably have went over 50

    Just two years later in 1909 Joe Jeanette beat Sam McVey by retirement in round 50

    And like I said I believe the last one before round limits went 46 rounds

    The idea that these guys weren't as fit as todays boxers???? Comical
     
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  8. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sometimes I can’t tell if people here are being bias or just plain ignorant.

    This thread separates the people with actual boxing knowledge vs armchair boxing experts. The latter knows every fighter from every era and has watched every fight but is actually blind to what actually works in the ring and the nuances of it as they can’t speak from experience on what moves will get you into trouble, which ones creates openings etc.

    Play the video below, watch it at .5x speed so it don’t look so jerky, how anyone can think these guys are at the same level today is beyond me. Compare them to the top CWs today.

    Tunney fights so upright, looks like his protecting his chest rather than his chin, has never seen a body shot, backs off in a straight line with his chin up, has 0 idea how to fight on the inside, the only combination he knows is a 1-2 (has he even seen how to throw a left hook to the body?), 0 idea how to create angles etc etc. Dempsey for his part doesn’t know how to throw to the body, has never learned how to throw an overhand right, again trying to protect his chest instead of chin, no idea how to move his head and doesn’t know how to cut off the ring. Between these guys, they both just about learned how to throw a 1-2. Neither guy knows how to counter or pop the jab either.

    It’s pretty pathetic, MMA fighters today look like they have better hands.

    If you’re an actual fighter, I dare you to step into the ring today and follow all those same habits. It’s a joke.

     
  9. blackfella96

    blackfella96 Member Full Member

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    People just can't except that boxing improves over time. This is a heavyweight bout and their hands are so low.. any elite heavy now with a hard hit would obliterate these guys. Bare in mind that they would be taking on people 4-5 inches above them, they will literally be walking into punches and counters. Even a 6 footer like Oscar Rivas will make these guys look like Light Heavy. I respect what they done for the sport and their toughness, but boxing would be almost alien to them if they got dragged into this time.
     
  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Active Member Full Member

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    Prestige and pride, and as I have said before,they had to support their families. It's not like that today, they support the leeches that hang onto them, as well as the greedy promoters. An opportunity meant something to them. It was not about 30 million dollar purses which is polluting other sports, this insensitive need for mega purses. Sure the cost of living has gone up, but not to the extent for unheard of purses. No discipline what so ever. Old time fighters acted like it was a job, so they did a better job for the raises or better living conditions. They trained hard and had trainers who were almost like fathers to them. Today fighters change their trainers like they change their clothes, and are often tempted by lust or money. The hard training made them appreciate the job that they were doing. They behaved like mature clean living individuals, that the young could admire, positive role models. A trainer would frown on his fighter being boastful, and woman could not fraternize with the fighters. Not saying all the past fighters would win in the ring against the present, but in a lot of areas they were better prepared. Maybe today there is better technology, but old fashioned conditioning,roadwork, and sparring were the keys for success, and being mentally ready, no distractions, or over confidence. I would say 50/50, on past vs the present, due to other factors.
     
  11. madballster

    madballster Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The 50s boxers would get destroyed in ridiculous mismatches.
     
  12. Belfast

    Belfast New Member Full Member

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    "They didn't know how to counter or pop the jab either" mate about 5 seconds in there is a jab to the body countered by a right hand over the top. I see good grappling looking for the overhooks and underhooks to get a better position, grappling for head position on the chest, working inside, right hand slipped to land a body shot counter, I see foot feignts, just saw a left hook countered by an uppercut to the body, I see Dempsey ducking some shots nicely then coming back with a leaping left hook that just missed. Tunney hits Dempsey with a jab, Dempsey tries to counter immediately the a right hand, Tunney avoids it and cracks him a counter right. I see Dempsey rolling a potentially fight finishing right hand off his shoulder just after he gets shaken up to his boots.

    In fact I can see Dempseys low stance darting in and then exploding upward with powerful hooks which was emulated by Mike Tyson, who considered him his favourite fighter, did you seriously say Dempsey doesn't know how to make his head? Well he's avoiding quite a few right hands by moving his head from the video I'm watching

    I am really not seeing what you're seeing here other than their stances are a bit awkward compared to today, maybe you just don't know what to look for

    They wouldn't be fighting at heavyweight today

    But it's true, I bet all those guys wish they were as technically disciplined and exceptionally talented as this guy who some consider to be the best heavyweight on the planet right now

    such amazing evolution

     
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  13. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is often the justification I see for these videos.

    So Dempsey throws a jab to the body and you think that qualifies? How about a jab, parry the jab, counter with a jab. Even just watching porter Spence who are scrappy, you see Spence jab porter and porter quickly counter with his own jab over the top.

    Dempsey is incapable of that.

    It’s like he throws 1 or 2 shots resembling proper technique and that qualifies him.

    It absolutely looks terrible, have you actually been in a gym? That’s not as an insult, I’m genuinely curious. As a guy who’s studied actual boxing, when movements look weird, amateurish, it just looks that way. The same way a dancer would notice when a dance isn’t performed as well as it should be, but a layman may just see it as though there’s nothing wrong with it.

    Their technique is way off.

    Ruiz displayed far far better technique in dealing with the range than Dempsey did.
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Circa 1880 to about 1905
     
  15. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Which ATG boxers boxed on college degrees?

    Was Joe Frazier a great athlete?

    No it isn't. Not even close.

    I'd say the USSR not competing professionally for most of the 20th century had a lot to do with that, personally.
     


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