How does ANYONE not know Tyson punches holes through comeback Foreman?

It was a double header.
Arum was involved in the promotion, which was what Foreman had wanted for any potential Tyson fight - according to reports and quotes from himself and King.

Yes, in a way it was. But both guys were actually after a title fight.

Yes, he was holding out for the biggest possible money, and in the meantime could carry on making money with safer fights.

I agree.

Well, I'm not going to give full credit to "Tyson's name" for the way Foreman was able to market himself.
EVERYONE was calling out Tyson in those years, but Foreman was captured the public's imagination far more than most, and for obvious reasons.
You might as well say he used Ali's name and Frazier's name too.
Foreman was a publicist on his own merits, to be fair.

Well, he knocked out Moorer as you say. He did compete with Holyfield.
Holyfield struggled with Bert Cooper. Tyson was knocked out by Douglas. Lewis was knocked out by McCall.
That's heavyweight boxing.

But still he has a decent chance against Tyson. It's heavyweight boxing. I don't think Razor Ruddock or Frank Bruno were any better than Foreman, and they at least made a bit of a showing against Tyson. I think Foreman was more durable.

Maybe, but you are ASSUMING Tyson would land 6 or 7 successive shots against Foreman with being hit, pushed or tied up. Holyfield fought in a completely different style to Tyson anyway.

 

So what ?

What has it got to do with boxing ?

 

It has to do with responding to an earlier contention that Frazier was physically stronger than Tyson.

 

Depends how you define "strength".
Relating to boxing, Frazier was arguably stronger, as evidenced by most of his fights. I rarely saw him tied up and walked back as easily as Tyson was by big guys.

 

how many big heavyweight guys did joe frazier fight?

ali tied him up and walked him back in fight 2 and fight 3

buster mathis tied him up often and walked him backwards

bonavena walked him back in their 1st fight

cruisers chuvalo and quarry matched him for strength

foreman chucked him about like a toy ragdoll in 2 fights

 

He pushed those two back often.

Bonavena and Chuvalo were ridiculously strong.

If people want to talk bench press and **** like that, Chuvalo was benching 400 pounds a few years ago, in his 60s !
In his prime he was a beast.
He was a solid 217 pounds against Frazier.
Frazier bulled him back for most of the fight.

 

Was Tyson really getting pushed around in his prime or was he allowing himself to be walked back? Tyson would often walk back in the clinch but he could push big strong guys like Ruddock and Smith back when he wanted. Boxing isnt a pushing match anyway, its when you let your hands go and Tyson with exception to his comeback was never in a position where he was losing fights because he was being pushed around. Douglas kept him in the center of the ring and kept him fighting. Old Foreman could barely put two punches together without needing a break.

 

And who were the elite big guys that Frazier had success against? And I mean big along the lines of Tucker, Thomas, Bruno, Holmes, Smith, Ruddock.

 

Ali, Bugner, Chuvalo, Mathis

 

Yes, that might be the case. It doesn't matter.
Being pushed back or pushing others back is MORE RELEVANT than the weight on the bar ins a military press or bench press, as far as boxing-specific strength is concerned, that's all.
As has been said, for example, apparently Chuvalo benched press loads, and apparently Frazier couldn't lift at all. In the ring, Frazier bossed Chuvalo, beat him up.

 

I think its all meaningless. Shane Mosley could put up 300 pounds several times, but he was often handled in the ring. I dont think there is any correlation, but Tyson was never really offset by being pushed back before the comeback.

In his prime he showed he could fight pretty well from the clinch or the backfoot because he punched very hard.

 

I agree. :good

 

Tyson should be favored over the Foreman of the 90's. But I don't buy this claim that he'd "punch holes" in Foreman. It would still be a dangerous bout for Tyson to take. Foreman's cross armed defense and tendency to push his smaller foes on the shoulders back into mid landing range, is something Mike would have to overcome in an effort to land flush, and the shots he'd have to eat along the way would have an impact as well. In addition, George was very proficient at tying up a smaller man as he came in, plus landed a nasty little gut check while in the clinches. Again I'd favor Tyson, but its by no means a given.

 

Good post. :good

This is roughly how I see it.
I'd lean towards Tyson for simple reasons but I wouldn't be at all surprised by an upset, and would absolutely expect Foreman to have his moments.

 

Seems reasonable but Foreman never beat anyone ever close to the league of Tyson and Holyfield and Tyson in the early 90's fought stylistically closer than you think.