How does Billy Conn do against Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield? 12rds

The most that you could say, is that it is highly likely that Jackson would win.

There would be some sort of betting odds on Khan.

 

As it was when he fought Louis.

 

Yes but would you have been justified in saying that it was impossible for Conn to beat Louis?

 

Conn’s illusiveness could make him a hard target for both fighters. Ultimately I think both Ali and Evander beat him, but it would take time to catch up to him

 

Conn would give a good account of himself against a pre- steroid Holyfield who weighed around 190. Goes the distance most likely. The later version of Evander would be way to much. Prime Ali? only question is how long does Conn last

 

I would say it was proved impossible.
Contrary to popular belief, Conn probably did as well as he ever could have against Louis the first time. The myth that he got reckless and changed tactics isn't really borne out by the fight film. The press loved that narrative because the young underdog had won them over.

LKO13 is a long way off beating Joe Louis in a 15 round fight.
That's surviving more than six minutes in the ring with Joe Louis needed to win, for starters.
And on the scorecards, Louis could have still won without a KO, so Conn would have needed to do more than just survive.
But he didn't even make it that far.

I can't see Conn doing better than that against Louis. I can't see Louis doing worse than that against Conn.

Conn never fought a better fight in his whole career.
It is justifiable to say beating Louis proved beyond Conn's abilities.

 

I don't think that you would ever be justified in saying that one boxer had zero chance against another.

Even if it was some journeyman fighting Muhammad Ali, the chance of them winning would be some sort of net positive value, however small it might be.

 

Yes but we know certain truths about that fight, that we would not know about a fantasy fight.

What if Louis had made a few more mistakes for example?

What if Louis had panicked?

What if Louis had thrown a rotator cuff?

 

Conn and Ali had many of the same attributes. The main difference would be that Ali outweighs him by 35 to 50 pounds. Conn has no chance. Why even talk about it?

Holyfield is another story. Assuming, as most in this thread have not, that the threadmaster intends to pose a fair matchup, I am figuring Conn wouldn't be matched against the heavyweight Evanderroid, but rather a 175 to 180-pound Evander as he weighed as an amateur and at the very start of his career. This would be an interesting match-up depending on what experience-level you imagine each fighter to be at in their respective careers. I won't go any further than this because I generally deplore and refuse to comment on fantasy matchups pitting fighters from different eras and/or weight classes.

 

Conn didn't fight like Ali at all, I don't get why they are compared so often.

 

You ****ing fanny

 

Ali in his prime beats him.
Like people have said, Conn would have a reasonable chance against the younger cruiserweight Holyfield. Would he win? Could go either way, possibly.

Having just rewatched Louis-Conn 1, I'm really impressed by Billy's effort. He boxed and brawled, moved and jabbed, but often stood right in front of Joe trading punches too.
In the 12th round I believe, he seemed to shake Joe with punches. I believe Conn was getting too caught up in the moment and was trying to knock Louis out. He was starting to trade too much. Big mistake. Joe caught him with some big punches in the 13th and fight over.

Yes, Billy Conn was a great fighter.

 

Well, in that case, I could possibly beat Joe Louis too.
He twists his left ankle coming into the ring, stumbles and twists his right knee, throws both shoulders out shadow boxing ....

 

There may be an element to this thread (for some posters) that by demonstrating that Ali & Holy beat Conn comprehensively, this demeans Joe Louis as a fighter, the old "Louis struggled with Conn, Ali & Holy would beat him easy so therefore Ali & Holy are much better than Louis" agenda.

The simple answer to the question posed by the OP is that Conn almost certainly loses to both Ali & Holyfield at their best, but with a caveat.

I think some context needs to be applied when assessing Louis' 1st fight with Conn, in which for me it is clear that Louis was not at his best. He was coming off a punishing schedule of 6 title defences in the previous 6 months including getting knocked out of the ring by Buddy Baer in the fight prior to Conn 1. That's 6 title defences in 6 months, 6 training camps, very little rest time.

Add to that the fact that Louis fought approximately 2.5 KGs below his optimum fighting weight of the time as he was determined to get below 200lbs as he did not want the ring announcer to say "Louis 202, Conn 174" but "Louis 199, Conn 174" (for example). This was clearly Louis' choice, but with a combination of "making weight" and his punishing schedule it would be virtually impossible for Louis to be as sharp as usual against a quick, shifty, elusive type like Conn.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you give Ali & Holy the same schedule as Louis had and they also have to fight 5 pounds below their optimum weight, Conn suddenly becomes a trickier assignment. I've no doubt they both beat him (as Louis did twice!), but you get my drift...

 

Joe Louis no doubt a great champion, 25 title defenses, 1937-1949. In 1966 Muhammad Ali defended his title 5 times, maybe not the quality of Joe Louis opponents, but you can only fight the opponents that are available in your era, not futuristic or fighters from the past. And no one is taking anything away from Louis, styles make fights.