How does Carlos Monzon rank H2H at middleweight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by EARL, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. EARL

    EARL Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    1
    Name all the fighters who would beat him at 160, if any?
     
  2. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    35,013
    Likes Received:
    18,277
    You almost could argue none of them really, he was in the top tier of fighters at that weight who most people interchange.

    I would have to say that Robinson, Greb, Hagler probably even RJJ & Nard could knock him off. But then again maybe not, he was really a great fighter.I I personally think he would have done better in Greb's era or a bit after, he was that old school kind of fighter who loved to get down and dirty.

    Monzon was deceptive, he actually looked kind of...well beatable at times. The way he threw punches, set his feet, moved his body, he wasnt all that aesthetically pleasing to watch all the time. And you couldnt be blamed for thinking he wasnt as good as he was made out to be. But I dont know there was something about him, he just put it all together so well to force the win and had a competitive spirit and aggression that set him apart at the time.
     
  3. Bystander

    Bystander Sensible Kibitzer Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    0
    id rank him right behind srr and greb..
     
  4. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    10,481
    Likes Received:
    18
    H2H, I think Jones, Toney, Hagler, Hopkins and SRL beats him.
     
  5. MSTR

    MSTR More Speed Than Roy!!!!! Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,247
    Likes Received:
    2
    Good post, except IMO there is no maybe about it. RJJ and BHOP would school Monzon like no tomorrow. Technically Monzon was completely inferior to these guys. Hagler beats Monzon also.

    Watch prime Roy and Prime Hop, and then watch prime Monzon. There is no way in hell Monzon could box with hop, yet alone Roy. Roy would stop hiim, no question. Even the young version of Roy who fought at 160, just too fast.
     
  6. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    35,013
    Likes Received:
    18,277
    He would do better than you think IF they fought in his era.
    Different gloves, different interpretation of the rules. Back in the day you didnt winge about dirty **** as much and you gave as good as you got when it came to the dirty stuff.

    I mean if Roy fought him in Argentina in the 70's, it would hell for him compared to what he is used to.

    Plus Monzon had an awesome chin, like about as good as Castro's, I dont think Roy would stop him. Roy's best plan would be to get on his bike and use all the speed he had.
    He would probably make Monzon look silly at times but he would stop to unload at his peril, I dont think he would be looking for the stoppage. Thats not the mindset that Roy has ever really had, and I dont think RJ would be suited for this fight.

    As I said though Monzon was deceptive. Roy was about as aesthetically pleasing as you get, so much speed and flash but Monzon was more subtle, more brutal. Maybe even more effective, but didnt really look like it.

    Yeah Id go with Roy in the modern day over 12 rounds with 10 ounce gloves. But i reckon it would be hard going for Roy against Monzon in his time.
     
  7. sues2nd

    sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    8
    I rank him 4th all time in H2H ability behind Hopkins, Hagler and Jones at that weight.

    I think Hagler and Hopkins both held a decisive advantage on the inside vs him, and both had the style and ability to make sure the fight took place there. And Jones was just a freak of nature at MW...so... BUT, as with EVERYONE I have in the top5 H2H at MW, I could see any of them beating each other really.

    Toney would round out my top5 H2H at MW btw...
     
  8. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    18,436
    Likes Received:
    20
    I think Monzon beats everybody but Jones at MW.

    Where do you put Greb?:yep
     
  9. sues2nd

    sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    8
    Second teir (anywhere from 5-10) if we are talking H2H. I dont see him beating anyone in my top 5 (Hopkins, Jones, Hagler, Monzon, Toney...in no particular order) but then again, I cant think of anyone else I would favor over him as well....tho fighters like SRR or SRL would definately give him a run.

    See, H2H there are so many factors to contemplate...that ya just cant say NOONE beats anyone. I mean, I think Whitaker was unbeatable at LW...but I feel the same about Duran, so what would happen if they meet???? Ya see where Im coming from?
     
  10. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    18,436
    Likes Received:
    20
    Definitley.
     
  11. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    15
    He would be at or near bottom of top ten. Now that is not a knock on him, I'm a fan of his. There have been a lot of middleweights over the years, so top 10-15 is tough group to get in to. Greb, Ketchel, Walker, and Papke were great, Fullmer and Monzon would be a war. Same for Zale Monzon, I might givve Monzon edge there--maybe. Robinson had a not so great record as middle champ, but he fought tough competition and continued too far past prime. I think since Monzon retired, no middleweight has surpassed him. I know Hagler and Hopkins have a lot of popularity, but I see Monzon as better.
     
  12. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    15

    Toney? Sorry, I gotta disagree big time on him. Especially as a middleweight.
     
  13. sues2nd

    sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    8
    A motivated, in shape James Toney at MW was an absolute MONSTER for ANYONE!
     
  14. Marnoff

    Marnoff Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    25,227
    Likes Received:
    27
    I don't think Hopkins would complain about a dirty fight.
     
  15. Marnoff

    Marnoff Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    25,227
    Likes Received:
    27
    ...Except Roy, if you read into their Super Middleweight showdown.