How does Larry Holmes legacy change if he never beat up an old Ali?

He’d be remembered much more fondly without that fight

 

I don't think much changes at all apart from lineal recognition date.

 

This. The win over Ali could be seen as mostly window dressing. Though we did get to see an amped up, peak Holmes, the one who was a h2h top 10-er imo.

 

I just love people always bringing up Ali when talking about Holmes and treating their fight as a knock against Larry.

First of all, Ali was a grown ass man. He wanted the fight. He was running around saying Holmes isn't a real champion. He was the one pushing for the fight. We all know Ali had and ego the size of Arkansas, plus he needed the money. Larry was in a lose-lose situation. Ali still had a valid claim to the lineage at the time, he was considered THE champ by many people. Many people thought he could beat Holmes. Nobody knew he had Parkinson's (it was diagnosed 4 years later). Of course, poeple knew he was past his prime, but he looked pretty good in his Spinks rematch. Also we need to remember, Ali didn't help himself popping thyroid medication like they were candy to lose weight.

If Larry didn't fight him, everybody would have said he ducked the rightful, aging champion, so he's not a real champ himself. If he fought him and took him lightly, he risked losing and being laughed at for losing to washed up Ali. He took the fight and whooped him - now morons say he beat up an old man. Never mind he was almost begging the ref to stop the fight and cried like a baby afterwards. You just can't win in these type of situations. Ali was also delusional at this point - few weeks after the loss he said he needed two tune up fights and wanted to challenge Holmes again. But now Holmes is a bad guy? Not Ali who pushed for the fight, not his camp who allowed him to fight, not boxing commisions who gave him the license? Right.

Also, what Larry did wasn't unprecedented. It was a cycle of boxing life. For example, Marciano beat up an old Joe Louis. Holmes got beat by 16 years younger Mike Tyson. Ali himself whooped an old Archie Moore and Cleveland Williams after he got shot and barely survived. Don't see anybody crying over it. Aging Tyson was knocked out by the likes of Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Old Klitschko lost to Fury and Joshua. Nothing new under the sun.

Imagine this though. Ali was supposed to face Big John Tate first for the WBA belt. But Tate lost to Weaver. If Tate was the one who beat up Ali, Holmes would have faced him next, taking revenge for his friend and unifing the titles, which he was never able to do. Larry would have been looked at as a hero. How one left hook can change boxing history.

 

no change. he is given no increase because Ali was done and no decrease because he was doing his job

 

Legacy is the same. I don't count the Ali win as being worth diddly squat at that stage of Ali's career. I don't hold it against Holmes at all. Ali finally talked a bigger cheque than his ass could cash and the fact that he got done like a christmas turkey is entirely on him.

 

I count the Ali win with about as much import and relevance as I would seeing Holmes pound a heavy bag for ten rounds. It neither adds nor detracts from anything. It was a symbolic victory and probably unnecessary, but I don't know a soul here who thinks more of it than that.

 

Legacy - no change. But as stated in an earlier post, Holmes might not have been viewed as dimly (unjustifiably) as he was by some boxing fans after that fight.

 

I really think that the only evidence that we need that it wasn't Larry's fault is that the ref was Richard Green. Yes, the same one from the Mancini - Kim fight.
He wouldn't have stopped the fight no matter what.

 

Marciano and Joe Louis was nothing the same in a whole lotta ways. Louis was rated #2, was on a seven fight win streak, had already lost to Charles, and begged Marciano for the fight after the Rock turned it down because Louis needed money. Again, a universe of difference on a number of accounts.

You sympathy for Holmes is admirable. He was between a rock and a hard place. But at the end of the day, it just left a very bad taste in people's mouths, and there isn't much to be done about that.

To answer the question, I don't think it would have changed a thing.

 

The voice of reason as always. Cheers, John!

 

Fortunately for Holmes he was not short on incapable opposition, so losing just one won’t hurt him.

 

Maybe we see a good outcome if Green fights Holmes and Ali refs instead.

 

It would have definitely been more entertaining.