How does Marciano beat

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Apr 16, 2019.



  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    These constant Marciano debates have me wondering how he beats imo his biggest threats in the division. So @The Undefeated Lachbuster can you explain in detail for one these (I see you as the most reasonable of these "rockistas")

    Larry Holmes
    George Foreman
    Sonny Liston
    Lennox Lewis
    Wlad

    I just want to know how, not starting any arguments. As for Rocky threads
    This is the last one I swear.
     
  2. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    I ĺike this thread already.......

    Add Ali & Tyson as well!
     
  3. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    The hilarious thing about it all , is we have a couple of members who have accused Ali fans of making him out to be Superman, then they have the audacity to tell us how Marciano triumphs in any fantasy bout.

    This of course has nothing to do with his ethnicity or religion he may share with said members.
     
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  4. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    Why add HW Icons?
    Add McCall, Tua, Thomas, Tucker, Douglas, Ibeabuchi or Ray Mercer. Ouch.

    @George Crowcroft : Looks like a therapy thread, good work.
     
  5. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He would struggle as he wouldn't even be in the same division for most of them......
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    He's a HW, have at it
     
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  7. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    Aehh?
    You mean, he has to get past Qawi and Holyfield first?
     
  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No he isn't, accept it!
     
  9. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What crack are you on?
     
  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That would be no easy task at CW.
     
  11. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And I consider you one of the most reasonable anti-rockistas, no malice here

    I'll try to keep my arguments short and readable. Please note first: my hypotheticals take place in 15 rounds and very, very loose stoppage rules. I also believe diminshing returns for weight, especially after 180, as great Heavyweights such as Dempsey, Patterson, Quarry, Marciano himself, etc have proven.

    Larry Holmes: Holmes was made for Marciano, a terrific outboxer but Marciano's infighting and workrate would be the deciding factor here. Marciano has fought those with comparable if not superior footwork in Jersey Joe Walcott, though I'd say the closest fighter he fought to Holmes was LsStarza, and just look at what he did to LaStarza. On the flip side, Holmes' closest opponent to Marciano would either be Tyson or Norton. One of which slaughtered him (past prime), and one of which dismantled and arguably beat him at Holmes' peak. Marciano has triple the chin and double the workrate of Norton so Holmes isn't stealing any late rounds. Marciano bulls Holmes to a UD or late stoppage, he would have no respect for Holmes' jab.

    George Foreman: Foreman absolutely, no question, has a good argument over Marciano, if someone picks Foreman over Marciano, I have no complaints. Foreman is possibly the only fighter I regard to have a better chin AND more punch power than Marciano, so he HAS to weather an early storm. Though Marciano is a freak of nature, Foreman is possibly one of if not the physically strongest boxer ever, so he could push Marciano if he needed to (though the ref would penalize him). Marciano would probably throw long winding Suzie Qs and Gazelle Punches from mid range, which would hit Foreman due to his lack of and sort of defense, alot like Marciano's fight against Layne. My argument over Foreman for Marciano boils down to Marciano is not frazier. Marciano has a better chin and is a two handed puncher, so he would not be butchered in the same way. I see Marciano getting off the canvas a few times in a miraculous, awe-inspiring show of heart to stop Foreman in the mid rounds. At the very least, I think Marciano and Lyle had comparable power with Marciano having the better chin (though Foreman was slightly past prime against Lyle), so it could go like Foreman vs Lyle, but with either side winning a great slugfest. My argument for Marciano beating Foreman is most likely bias and emotionally guided

    Sonny Liston: Marciano's explosive dart and dash and infighting, combined with his short arms and superior chin, would allow him to win a grueling slugfest that sees Marciano go down early. It would be a hyper version of Walcott vs Marciano. Liston is one of the few fighters I regard as comparable if not superior in punch power to Marciano, not to mention that hard jab. Marciano easily has his hands full early

    Lennox Lewis: Lewis, in Lewis form, kicks the crap out of Marciano early with a hard right and excellent distance control from his jab. HOWEVER, Marciano has been in this situation numerous times. Lewis starts to slow a bit from Marciano's pace and body shots, and in the Mid-Late rounds, Marciano connects with a Hasim Rahman/Oliver McCall style one punch knockout with good ole' Suzie Q. Lewis would be the second hardest fight for Marciano, next to Foreman. The fight would be a more hyper version of Marciano vs Walcott, with Marciano looking bad early. Also a little bias here: Mercer was robbed against Lewis

    Wladimir Klitschko: See what I wrote for Lewis except it happens sooner and Wlad is less dominant in the beginning. Wlad is like a poor man's Lewis, he's more robotic, he isn't as good technically, he's slower, he doesn't hit as hard, and he's possibly even more chinny! Marciano KO early-mid rounds. Walcott would KO Klitschko as well IMO


    Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali provide more of a threat to Marciano than all except Foreman IMO. Both are 50/50 against Marciano, hell I'd favor Ali in today's 12 rounds TKO-like-they're-children ruleset.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  12. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't know whether I should be saddened or impressed that you guys started arguing and baiting in the time it took me to type out what I wrote, on a thread that was stated to not want to start an argument in the first place

    No scratch that, I'm not surprised.
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    Thanks, this was a good read, although I don't agree with all of it (definitely changed my opinion on the Holmes fight tho)
    Im still completely adamant that Lewis, Liston and Foreman KO Rocky, but I've made some oversights (like Rocky having more than a left hook)
    I can't see Marciano taking the beating Golatta took, but if it goes the down the stretch I could almost envision a Rocky win
    Can't see any way of winning against Liston, but you at least tries lol

    I specifically didn't put in Louis or Ali, as you have mentioned those two before. But thanks, good post
     
  14. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That shows you're a very open minded person, and I don't mind that you favor 3 hard punchers with good skill sets over Marcinao, I have all 3 in my top 8 H2H!
     
  15. reznick

    reznick Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Like Lonnie Ali said at Ali’s funeral, it goes both ways.
     
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