How does prime Larry Holmes vs Mike Tyson go?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MixedMartialLaw, Oct 6, 2023.


How does prime Larry Holmes vs Mike Tyson go?

  1. Tyson KO

    47 vote(s)
    46.5%
  2. Holmes KO

    19 vote(s)
    18.8%
  3. Tyson UD

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  4. Holmes UD

    34 vote(s)
    33.7%
  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Do you believe the fights Tyson had at a similar age to be very telling as well?
     
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  2. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Holmes was a great older fighter. Tyson wasn’t. One of the reasons I reckon Holmes was greater than Tyson. Holmes at 40 was probably better than Tyson at 30.

    But because Holmes was such a good older fighter even at the age I can’t help but judge him as such.
     
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holmes after Cooney had probably no performance to match 34-year old Tyson's against Golota. Hell, perhaps not even the one against Etienne. Tyson hadn't lost since Holy 5 years earlier when he faced Lewis while Holmes came off two losses and and a retirement before Tyson. Could there be any worse preparation?

    There were calls that Tyson-Holmes shouldn't be allowed to go ahead while many thought Tyson could actually beat Lewis.

    You just have to have cursory knowledge of Holmes to know that he had been on the slide for at least 5 years when he faced Tyson, struggling with any decent fighter during that time. And facing an animal like peak Mike coming off a retirement and two losses against someone he was meant to easily beat is of course a living nightmare for anybody.

    Saying that this was a fair representation of Holmes at his best is crazy talk.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
  4. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    This is my thinking, also. Mike Tyson's style would still have been pure poison for Larry Holmes, and Larry has little there to keep Mike off of him.
     
  5. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was pretty amazing by that point, his dismantling of Shavers I was textbook pugilistic brilliance imo.

    Kenny sure didn't want to lose that WBC title....
     
  6. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Norton sure fought his heart out, especially in round 15.
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Shavers 1 might be his best performance. Picture perfect.
     
  8. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

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    Would Holmes have enough to nullify Tysons wrecking ball spree in the early rounds, and the ability to thwart Tyson enough to mess with Tysons psychological demons?.
    Mental fragility when the going got tough was a chink in Tysons armour, whereas Holmes mental fortitude was top drawer

    I favour Holmes to win prime for prime
     
  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    To be fair, Holmes was much better at an older age than Tyson. A 38 year old Holmes vs a 38 year old Tyson probably wouldn't be a fair fight with Tyson getting the unfair part of the stick.
     
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    At 37, Tyson showed himself to be still dangerous against Etienne. Don't know how that Tyson would have done against '88 Holmes.

    But, yes, Holmes went on to have a much better career after that of course.

    But in any case, Holmes had been slipping for a long time by '88 and was coming out of retirement. Louis vs Charles is probably a pretty fair comparison, with the exception that Louis didn't come off two losses.

    There was a reason for the calls to cancel the fight.
     
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  11. Turnip mk3

    Turnip mk3 Active Member Full Member

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    The 81 Holmes stops Tyson late
     
  12. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Mike simply doesn't have the height or reach for dealing with peak Holmes, who moved nonstop for the entire Championship Distance on Tex. Larry was at his best for Shavers I, and in 1982 for Cooney and Cobb with Eddie Futch in his corner.

    Holmes flew around the ring counterclockwise in Shavers I. He showed his lethal right uppercut in Weaver I, perfect for splitting the peekaboo on a shorter guy like Tyson by stepping in.

    In their actual bout, Mike had a lot of trouble ending matters, needing 45 seconds between the second KD and the third. Larry missed surviving that round by five seconds and a right uppercut attempt caught in the second strand. (Everybody who has boxed knows how disruptive that is.}

    Finally, Tyson simply doesn't have the firepower for peak Holmes....

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    In 1965, ringside reporters observed that Floyd Patterson was indeed able to match hand speed with Ali, but the lack of height and reach was too much for Floyd to manage. That's also the case with Mike against peak Shavers I/Cooney/Cobb versions of Holmes. And even if Tyson does get to him, he will not be able to finish him. There is ZERO chance Mike could have finished those editions of the Assassin when he could barely do it in their actual bout.

    I had Tillis the winner over Tyson 6-4 BTW, while others had it 7-3. It is obvious Mike never hurt Quick in any way, while Shavers blasted James onto his face with a single long and deadly ninth round shot that a dominant Tillis barely beat the count from.

    Larry and Mike are friends, so Holmes tends to be quieter about the supremacy of Earnie's punching prowess, but Quick has nothing to lose by stating the facts. Footage does verify what Tillis says, and Earnie really flattened Larry with the best shot he ever delivered against an extremely well conditioned and prepared Champion, an ATG who only lost that round due to the KD, and otherwise won all other 21 completed rounds.

    On two cards against one of the fastest starting HWs in history at his very best, a rusty, aged and overweight Holmes was only trailing by one point after three rounds, and again, only came within five seconds of surviving round four after staving off Tyson for 45 seconds after the previous KD. (Duran tended to finish guys in seconds after an initial KD like that. Check what El Cholo does to Roni Martinez for a GREAT late career example of this.}

    Tale of the tape --- Tyson, height - folks who have stood beside him at airports guesstimate he is around 5ft 9in in shoes, and he has been listed at 5.84. His recorded reach is 70.87.

    Holmes --- 6ft 3in to 6ft 4in in boxing shoes. I think 6ft 3-1/2in is probably accurate, and his reach has been listed at 81 inches.

    For the visual, look at Ali-Patterson. Mike used the peekaboo. Frazier is not a suitable comparison, and no version of Smoke would've been competitive with peak Holmes either. (I loved the friendship shared by those rural southern boys though. I wish Joe was still around.} With Eddie Futch in Larry's corner during 1982, forget about it. Even Cus in Tyson's corner doesn't save Mike. Eddie Futch over Cus D'Amato any day of the week.
     
  13. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Holmes is my 2nd favorite heavyweight after Tyson and I'm fairly sure that Tyson always beats him. He has plenty of firepower to get Holmes out of there. Don't kid yourself.

    The jab was the least of Tyson's worries. A combination of speed and power (among other things) would've done Mike in. Holmes doesn't have enough firepower to get the job done. This would embolden Tyson and without the respect of power - game over!

    The SuperFight is tremendous while it lasts.
     
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  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    That's grossly untrue. Tyson's entire style was built on overcoming height and reach deficits and nullifying jabs. His entire style was actually built on beating Larry Holmes.

    Tex Cobb couldn't cut off the ring if he had a chainsaw embedded on each arm, Ash style. He was an absolute plodder and a guy like Holmes was always going to carve him up like a thanksgiving roast. He was made for guys like Holmes and Ali.

    Holmes was at his absolute best after Shavers 1 and a touch before Cooney, not to mention Cobb. Sure, Shavers 1 is one of his best performances but he improved a bit with experience and decent opposition thereafter.

    Tyson didn't get hit with many uppercuts at his best and shook them off when he did. There was also a price to pay for missing them. Holmes actually landed his best uppercut against Tyson and it had zero effect. Holmes would be looking to land that uppercut, but the flipside is he'd have to be close to Tyson to do it which is exactly what Tyson wants.

    Holmes fought a wholly defensive bout and that combined with his size, class, durability and experience made him hard to get out of there. It would not have mattered if Holmes heard the bell as he was on his way out. Tyson wasn't tired at all and the uppercut getting caught in the ropes was a desperate last hail mary.

    Oh dear.

    Floyd is not Tyson and Holmes is not Ali. Labelling Tyson as having zero chance of finishing Holmes is, quite frankly, outrageous to put it mildly. Holmes was extremely difficult to get out of there at all stages of his career and despite facing Holyfield and some other decent fighters second spell only remotely looked like being stopped by Tyson.

    Irrelevant. Weaver had Holmes in huge trouble, Snipes did, etc etc. Fighters that aren't a patch on Tyson. Tillis would have been whooped by Tyson a couple of years later like he was whooped by lesser fighters. Tillis was actually one of the greatest learning experiences Tyson ever had and he came out the other side a better more experienced pugilist.

    Holmes made no end of statements vilifying Tyson, his power and his ability after he got pole axed. Everyone considered it sour grapes, which it was.

    It's crazy that you can paint such a negative picture of what was a superb victory over an awkward proud ex champ. The bias in your entire post is obvious. Holmes staved off Tyson for 45 seconds after the previous KD but Duran finished someone called Roni Martinez quicker so this is a negative for Tyson? What the hell? That is weird.

    The bolded and underlined is one of the wildest statements i have ever read in here in my lifetime. Height and reach won't be what decides Tyson - Holmes. Either could win, absolutely, you can make a really good case for either fighter but the case above is anything but strong.

    Another point is that many believe if Holmes can last 6 or so Tyson will tire and Holmes will take over. This isn't necessarily the case as Tyson as his best eased back in the mid to late rounds while still dominating the cards. Smith and Tucker didn't win a single second half round on almost all cards. Tyson still had plenty in reserve and if/when they tried to up the ante he could go with them. So while Tyson initial furious early round assaults subsided he was still in complete control of the fights with plenty if the bag if they wanted to force the issue.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2023
  15. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holmes got knocked out as soon as he stopped running and holding to survive and tried to win.
    Even a peak Holmes gets hit with the overhand right if he sets his feet to actually land something against Tyson.

    Tyson was designed, bred, schooled specifically to beat Holmes. It was Cus D'Amatos plan that Tyson dethrone Holmes. Tyson wanted Holmes badly, he grew up dreaming of beating him.

    That kind of motivation and mental preperation is powerful, its one of the main factors why Holyfield beat up Tyson, a 10 year long obsession that led to him fighting the perfect fight, making no mistakes. The winning fighter had visualized the fight 100 times more often than the loser. Dont underestimate that
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2023