How does the Classic Forum Rate Pacquiao in an all-time P4P sense?

:good

 

:rofl you see something special in Lacy?

 

Before he fought Calzaghe there was a big hype around Lacy.

 

Try reading my point properly mate. My point is that fighters like Lacy got ruined with one fight but Cotto being a top fighter of the day was not ruined in one fight by Margarito. I.e. good fighters can handle a beating and still be good afterwards, whereas someone of Lacy's caliber cannot.

 

Asero ****in loves hindsight doesn't he?!!!!

 

bais against modern day fighters. I bet you would not have barrera and morales in your top 80

 

yah, your tone sounds like that if lacy was not ruined he would be an elite p4p fighter.

hey, do not put vargas and lacy in the same sentence. Trinidad ruined vargas' hall of fame career. can you say the same with lacy? Ooops, i forgot, you may have seen something in lacy that classic posters didn't see. Care to share?

 

No i wasn't saying that Lacy would be an all time great if he didn't get ruined by Calzaghe, at all. Don't come at me with bull****.

My whole point was that Lacy is not as good a fighter as Cotto, therefore arguing against people who were trying to write off Manny's win because 'Margarito already ruined him'.

I was acknowledging that fighters can get ruined in one fight but they are ultimately not a top level opposition type, like Lacy. I was comparing Cotto to Lacy as an example showing that Cotto is a better win.

That is in no way saying that Lacy would have been something special without the Calzaghe fight. I was basically just saying that Lacy was effectively a prospect who got drowned in deep seas, whereas Cotto is a world class fighter.

Now stop mis-reading my posts and trying to put words in my mouth, it's cringing.

 

Well, the first thing you learn when you study history is that hindsight is not allowed. If that can be applied to boxing history I don´t know.

 

Vargas' hall of fame career

 

There isnt much between them in terms of ability. But i doubt that Marquez could have beaten say Oscar or Cotto, so does that make Pacquiao better?

I think Arguello could catch Pacqiao as he opened up. As Arguello generally looked for openings that way and Pac does leave openings as he comes forward althoguh like you say he comes in at angles.

I thought Marquez won both fights fairly clear.

 

I don't thnk Marquez could beat Cotto or blow out Hatton, but Oscar was truly shot, probably in part because of the move back down again at a late age, but that's
not too relevant in the end.He simply had nothing left.No doubt there are a lot of mediocre fighters who couldn't have come near the beating he got from Pac, but any in shape, prime fighter with even marginal world class talent should be able to score a win over that Oscar.

I love that fight, Oscar had been cheating the fans with his bull**** half assed cash in performances and "superfights" for a good few years and it came back to **** him over against a smaller figfhter he no doubt thought he was a lock against.Payback for all those early career perfromances, where he drained down so he could have a significant size advantage and blast out smaller men.

 

I think at FW-SFW possibly even LW Marquez and Pacquiao are about equal in ability and wins ad resume IMO

People really underestimate Marquezs win with argueably the 2 best lightweights in Diaz and Casamoyer

 

Somewhere between 18-22. A win over PBF puts him 12-15 and if he whoops Mosley after that he's between 8-10.

 

What about Marquez's losses to Norwood and Chris John? Does that put Crhis John and Norwood up there with Pac ability/legacy wise? Plus there is the dubious win over a past prime MAB

Maybe Marquez just had the style to offset Pacquaio, but Pacquaio is probably overall better. Then again Pacquaio has been steered clear of mover/boxer types his whole career, no Guzman/Chris John/Casamayor/Campbell type fights for him, not clear ducks but maybe Roach doesnt want to put him in with boxer movers

And what about Ambers/Zivic should they rate up there with Armstrong? Do we rate Marcel/Fernandez up there with Arguello?

It gets complicated when you take this route