How does the Classic Forum Rate Pacquiao in an all-time P4P sense?

:good

 

I got 27-17

 

Well that wouldn't hurt his legacy of course. No seriously, it's unfortunate for Pacman that he fights in an era where the boxing pool is shallower in terms of fighters than it's ever been. Bear in mind too that I'm questioning those that have Pacman in their top 10 now. Beating PBF and SSM would put a whole new light on matters.

I agree it is a fantastic achievement and I'll say again; Pacman is an amazing fighter and a genuine all-time-great fighter, nevermind a HOF'er that almost anyone seems to be able to get into these days. Fact of the matter though is that 2 of his 3 last opponents were certainly past prime and Cotto psychologically was not the same fighter he was, whilst physically still being prime.

It's not my intention to disparage Pacman, who is a tremendous fighter. It's to try and apply some common sense and objectivity to the argument.

 

I don't usually like ranking fighters like this until they've retired and we have some perspective on their career - but since you asked ...

I would have him in my top 20. Sometimes I'm maybe biased towards more "classical" boxers like Leonard (both), Whitaker and even Mayweather in lists like this but there's a reason we all rank Armstrong above all those guys - there comes a point when a fighters achievements are so great that you just can't deny his greatness any more.

Its hard not to look at guys like RJJ and say "but he was just better, look at him!" Or rate him lower because he didn't fight in the olden days but I'm confident Pacquiao's talents and achievements will stand the test of time along with the other 19 greatest fighters ever.

 

Between 80-100

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Seriously ?

Thats ****ed up mate, what does a fighter have to do these days, he`s way higher than that, thats blasphemy to have him that low.

 

I'm ****ing feeling this:fire

I'm frustrated right now.

 

Ok. Then we're on the same page.

 

Yep, true.

 

I don't know about putting a number range on it, but was I the only one that heard Emmanuel Stewart slip it in at the very end that he has Pac in the same league as Robinson and Ali? I wonder what he's looking at. Truly though, one poster said it, we are fortunate to be watching this guy and we'll look back on these days the same way we look back at other greats. He's got it all. I love the way he disassembles people. He figures them out, fast, and then lets his speed, his non-stop movement, his angles, his power that he gets off that movement to turn a phrase, 'take his guy apart'. I'll also agree with the poster that expressed concern for Cotto now. Time to hang 'em up proud champion. And watch for Sugar Shane to present Manny more of a dilemma than Floyd. I think Manny will handle Mayweather's speed and techinical prowess, while as a fan of his Mosley's power concerns me a little.

 

Forget De La Hoya and Hatton. They were two candles on the cake that was baked by the three Mexicans who are truly the ones reponsible for catapulting Manny from good to great. Barrera, Morales, and Marquez were the fire for Manny Pacquio's gold as much as Murderers' Row was for Archie Moore and Philadelphia was for Hagler.

I plunked down my reputation on Manny taking this by a late TKO. Specifically, on cuts. No money, but a man I know must call me "boss" for the rest of his life. The reason for that prediction was that while Cotto is a good fighter, and a great test, his style is too static for Pacquiao -who is a great fighter. Pacquiao's dynamism propels Pacquiao's dynamite and that is difficult for most boxers to cope with. He is not only a southpaw, but a puncher who fights like a swarmer; and that's not all...add in master strategy behind it. Watching him do what he did confirmed what many already suspected for years now, that Manny is an all-time great.

Top 10 all-time? Not yet. Top 20? I'd have to say yes he is.

Consider Armstrong. I count him in the top 5. He was a natural LW. Manny is a natural Feather. Armstrong's third title was taken from Lou Ambers, and it was pretty damn controversial. However, his win three months earlier from Barney Ross was not... and Ross was a great fighter -far greater than anyone Manny has faced. HOWEVER, If Manny beat Floyd and then especially Shane unless Shane has noticably slipped ... well, damn, all of us purists who (rightfully) pay greater tribute to those guys who fought in black and white (because as a group they were better) are going to have to ponder his breaking and entering into the top 10. Perhaps... top 5.

...put that in your wraps.

 

Good post my man. Very good.

 

I believe i called this fight, i'm trying to dig out my post now.

 

Thanks T, I enjoyed that fight. I love Manny's style. That speed, those angles! All the power in the world won't help you if you can't land. This guy's a lot of fun to watch. He's bringing a lot of excitement to the game isn't he T?

 

Stonehands summed it up brillaintly.

What Pac is achieved is unthinkable from Fly to beating a top Welterweight fighter and a RING pound for pounder. But not only beating him he bossed him around that ring like an all time great. He pushed forward, controlled the pace and hurt the bigger man, many thinking this was unthinkable.

The fight i would liken this to most is the 6th Lamotta vs Robinson fight. Cotto was a big man like Lamotta and used his size and Pacquiao like Robinson was moving up (although he was moving up even more). With a competitive start Pac then drops Cotto twice but the fight was still competitive then he starts to put the hurting on Cotto before stopping him. But again it was the way he bossed and hurt the bigger man just like Robinson. (i do know that Cotto isnt near teh class of Lamotta)

I honestly believe Pacquiao is up there with the Ali's, Robinson's, Armstrong's and Greb's of the boxing world. He is a phenomenom, he aint natural. What he has done is amazing the only reason he aint up there with them guys (as Stonehands mentions) he lacks that truly defining win and if he beat Mayweather or Mosley he is definitly up there. But apart from the fighting skills he has that charisma and likeablility factor that allows him to transcend the sport.

Give the guy his due, hes more than earnt it