How does Tyson beat Ali?

Certainly not impossible. Both in their primes, Tyson is one of the top 5 heavies I'd name if I had a gun to my head to cause an upset vs prime Ali.

It would depend on Tyson's mental state and the number of rounds. If Ali got in his head, I just cannot envision Tyson pulling it off outside a punchers chance. If Tyson came ready to rumble, focused and in shape ignoring Ali's taunts, we'd be in for quite a treat and potentially one of the best HW matchups of all time.

Over 12 it would be very close back and forth war with each man doing everything to maintain control of the pace and their preferred range. Over 15 I'd have to side with Ali, his late round rallies and guts were a sight to behold and Tyson is not known for late round endurance and toughness.

 

Which Tyson would you favor to give Ali the most trouble?

For me it’s either the ‘87 Tyson that fought Pinklon Thomas or ‘88 version who fought Spinks.

 

1987 Tyson waits for Ali to turn 34.

 

The spinks Tyson is overrated. We learned nothing in that fight execution wise that we hadn't seen. The fight only stands out because spinks was undefeated and on paper meant to be a somewhat good challenge since he beat Holmes who ruled the division with 20 defenses. In the end, Spinks landed maybe 5 punches and got completely steam rolled.

I would say the Tyson of the Thomas bout does give us some idea on it he could cope with Ali's jab. His corner reminded him to use head movement and go to the body rather than simply attempting to absorb shots and go for one big hit. Thomas was very durable with a good reach, good fundamentals, good stamina, and similar height to Ali so it was a good test, Thomas just lacked the hand/foot speed, high ring IQ, adaptability, and most importantly heart.

But guys like him, Tillis, and Tucker were very crucial for Tyson's development. He would be forced to learn how to actually think and box in case he couldn't simply blast guys out. Guys with legs and a good jab.

I'm not sure which Tyson of a specific fight gives Tyson the most trouble but the ones from those fights would be close to 50/50 if not an even match.

 

I've always picked Ali in a fantasy fight with Tyson, but your points are valid. If Henry Cooper does that, and remember, Ali had the luck of the bell ringing, then Tyson certainly stands a great chance of landing it.
Would be an extremely dangerous fight for Muhammad no doubt s.

 

I seriously doubt Ali would have lost the first fight with Cooper regardless of when he got dropped that round. He was up immediately and walked steady back to his corner. Ali was the master at tying up his opponent. He would survive Cooper and still stops him the following round just as he had in his first fight with Liston when he was half-blinded by a substance in his eyes.

 

I can see an argument for either guy, although always favored Ali to pull it off.
But now we are talking about the absolute prime of Tyson, recruiting the very best version...

While praising Tyson for how he did against Ribalta, although it was very competitive.
More so was the Tillis fight, so much so that some felt he deserved the decision. Even though Quick had lost his last 3 fights, & 4 of the 5 before Tyson!

Yet we are using as evidence against Ali the Cooper fight, which besides that knock down big scare he dominated....
Although Ali had just turned 21, & unlike Tyson who was in his prime & right near his absolute peak...

Ali was not even in what is argued to be his prime.
And he was no less than 3-4 years away from his absolute peak!

Nobody even talked about Ali vs. Chuvalo, Williams, Foley...
Or said something like if fighters far inferior to Ali like Ribalta & especially a grade D version in Tillis can run Tyson close...
How would Tyson have ever dealt with the skills, reflexes, quickness, adaptability, endurance & heart of peak Ali?

Anyone else (everyone else?) see the massive disparity of fair consideration given here?

 

I never implied Cooper is the better boxer, it is clear to everyone that Ali was superior.
It's very possible that Ali was taken by surprise by the punch or he was simply clowning around.
However, what is certain is that, Ali was dizzy as hell after that punch, it really hurt him. I firmly believe that he would have gotten knocked out had the round lasted another minut, assuming that Cooper went after him obviously.
As for the Liston fight, Dundee said that it was probably the ointment they kept rubbing on Liston's shoulder that went into Ali's eyes when they were clinching, there was no proof of foul play.
Look, both Ali and Tyson are great fighters, I just see Tyson winning this one. And IMO no boxer is unbeatable, they all have styles that trouble them

 

I can't see Tyson winning this.

 

The whole talk of Ali being susceptible to the left hook is somewhat overstated.

Ali fought an ATG with a great left hook in Liston and got by most fine.

By the time he fought Frazier quite a bit of spring had gone from his legs and he wasn't quite the same fighter. What also needs to be said is Frazier with all said and done Frazier is probably the greatest left hooker of all time.

Quite a few hit harder but when looking at the entire picture it's quite likely nobody had a more consistent and better utilized left hook ever, certainly not in the heavyweights. Anyone fighting Frazier that can't get him out of there fast (and that would be very very few people) is going to struggle against that almighty left hook.

The thing is however that Ali came back and beat this great left hooker in their next two bouts. On top of this he stopped George Foreman who also possessed one of the great hooks. Patterson too had a renowned left hook.

 

The reasoning after the Henry Cooper fight was that if Clay was decked heavy by Cooper, imagine what Liston will do to him ?

 

Maybe if Liston managed to land a surprised left hook like Cooper did but he never did. Maybe the smaller faster Cooper just matched up better against Clay than old Liston did?

 

Possibly if Tyson was armed with a (loaded) gun he could defeat Ali, but that's the only situation where they'd be competitive.

 

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It was not even remotely competitive.

• Going into the tenth round, Tyson led 9-0, 8-1, 7-2 on the judges' score cards.

He'd also dropped Ribalta thrice prior to the stoppage.