How does Tyson beat Ali?

Huh, I will go back & look at that, you must be right.
If it was competitive, the scoring would have been a major controversy.
I must have conflated that with the Tillis fight!

 

No problem mate. We all make mistakes. Myself more than perhaps everyone else

 

He’d have to start with a shovel

 

Tyson would be a handfull early on alright but so many of Ali's opponents were a handfull. That's why those of us who remember him celebrate him.
To address the left hook debate, Ali was still a professional novice against Banks who was already a 10 round Fighter. In the first Cooper fight, Ali was coasting as he seriously under rated Cooper. Big mistake ! Henry had one of the best left hook deliveries of any Heavyweight. American friends, if you are sceptical, check out his highlight reel. Against Frazier, Ali had had 3 rounds with Jerry Quarry and the Oscar Bonavena fight after being out for 3 years.
Many people make the direct comparison between Joe Frazier and Tyson. Of course Mike was bigger, perhaps even hit harder but Joe mostly gave Ali trouble because he combined his technical ability with insane courage. I think Tyson's record in hard fights speaks for itself.
If we think back, Tyson couldn't find a way to get rid of Bonecrusher Smith and was given problems by Tony Tucker.
Ali would move and clutch his way through the first 4 rounds and then start putting it on Mike, inviting him on, timing him and beating him to the punch.
I think Tyson would beat himself up as the fight wore on, getting more ragged, desperate and hittable. Ref stops a supplicant Tyson around the 9th.

 

It's silly to compare Frazier and Tyson because they were very different fighters. The only real similarity they share was that they were both short with short arms.

 

His record is not that great indeed, but we must remember that we are talking about prime vs prime here.
Tyson had most of his big fights when he was past his prime and nowhere near as good as he used to be.

Tyson was a very good counter puncher, what makes you think he couldn't slip Ali's punches and hit back ?!

This idea that Tyson gets angry and frustrated is nonsense. You yourself gave the Smith and Tucker fights as examples. He couldn't put those guys away either (partly because they were hanging on to dear life), yet he still hung in there and won it on points. When Rooney was guiding him, Tyson maintained his discipline.
If Ali is to beat him, it will be on points, not cause Tyson gives up.

 

Yeah, that I the point I was also trying to make. It proves that if a big puncher could hit him flush, Ali's in big trouble.
Luckily for him, guys like Liston and Foreman never did.

 

Foreman and Liston both hit him flush. So did Shavers.

 

I'll have to watch the fights again, but from what I remember Liston and Foreman only managed a few glancing blows to his head, none being power shots. Foreman did hit a few power shots to Ali's body, one of which caused Ali a lot of pain. Ali had amazing body endurance.
For the record, when I said that neither managed to land on him, I meant with clean hard shots like Cooper and Frazier did. Or do you believe these 2 hit harder than the other 2 ?
I don't think Ali (or anyone else for that matter) can take such a shot from Liston and Foreman. Even if one doesn't go down, he'll still be very stunned and in trouble.
As for Shavers, he had 2 or 3 big punches, but he never followed up on them with a combo or something, he just stood there and allowed Ali to recover. I read an interview someone did with Shavers once where he said that he thought someone who's wounded is very dangerous, that's why he didn't go for Ali. If that is true, it seems like he had a very dumb mindset, is as if he somehow lacked killer instinct, which is very weird.

 

Short answer is prime for prime Tyson never beats Ali

 

Cooper and Frazier dropping him does not mean they hit harder than Foreman and Liston. Frazier landed loads of flush hooks in that fight and the accumulation of both body shots and head shots would have stopped many a great. Did he even sight the Cooper hook? There's myriads of factors involved. Liston absolutely landed flush punches and Foreman landed some too imo.

Shavers landed flush on a woeful version of Ali. He's considered by a lot to be the hardest hitter of them all. Does Ali have to take a 4 punch flush combination from him in order to show he can take a punch? That would be a hard mark.

Ali took a punch like few in history. He got past Frazier 2 out of 3 and both Foreman and Liston not to mention Shavers when he was washed up. He was very faded against Lyle too.

 

Tyson showed limitations on less then Ali's pedigree in his prime.

 

Same way Frazier did the first time, except prime Mike would be faster and hit harder.

 

That was my point too. But they landed more cleanly on his jaw, that's why he went down.

Yeah, but not with the same kind of shots like Cooper and Frazier. My question for you is this: if Foreman and Liston would have landed similar clean hooks to Ali's jaw, like the one Cooper landed, do you think Ali could have taken it or would he have been KO'd ?
And you can assume it's either of left hook or a right hook for this hypothetical situation.

 

What Cooper proved was if your clowning and get caught doing it, any fighter can be put on his ass, Ali included.
Coopers hook wasn't as hard, quick or accurate as J.Frazier, yet Frazier only managed to do it once in over forty rds.