How does Tyson beat Ali?

Cooper had serious power in his left hook ... I'm not sure if it wasn't as powerful as Frazier's ... They are certainly comparable

KO punches aren't always just the most powerful ... They are the fast, accurate, and the ones you don't see .... Power alone is overrated I'd say

 

Such questions have no answer. Thinking however that Ali is KO'd by any perfectly clean punch from these two is pure guess work and hugely unlikely as we saw him take enormous punches off both. Frazier landed any amount of clean left hooks and the accumulation was enormous. Even then Ali was only dropped right at the end. Foreman wasn't a pure one shot KO artist despite his power, not many are. He's not KO'ing Ali with one punch and neither is Liston. Even in his two awesome demolitions of Patterson huge punches were shipped for a short time. Ali isn't glass jawed.

Greg Page dropped Tyson hard in sparring with a short right hand. If Ali lands such a punch is it the beginning of the end for Tyson?

 

I did write Cooper's hook wasn't as hard as Frazier's .I also wrote it wasn't as quick and as accurate.
It's all in the initial post. Power is overrated without having the ability to use it on a Atg level.
But Frazier is considered an ATG, not so much for Cooper.

 

Who had a harder left hook is very hard to determine.
I agree with you that Cooper wasn't as accurate, but the left hook he landed on Ali was very clean.

 

Yeah, I know it's just guess work, but I was only asking for your opinion, not a definitive answer.
Regarding Liston and Foreman, IMO if they land their best punch clean, I believe they can KO anyone.

No, cause Ali was not a big puncher. It's only the beginning of the end when guys like Foreman, Liston, Lewis, Wlad etc land.

 

Ali was clowning, thought Cooper was absolutely no threat. Anyone that underestimates an opponent can be put on their ass. Ali didn't underestimate Frazier, certainly wouldn't underestimate Tyson.

 

Page had a pretty big right hand but Ali's was super fast and often hit targets that didn't see it. I have no doubt he had the power over the duration of a fight to potentially stop Tyson. Tyson could be worn down.

The thing is one punch KO's are really rare. I don't believe those guys can KO anyone with their best punch as they all often landed their best punch during their career and it certainly wasn't always a KO. sometimes it was, sure.

 

Buster Douglas in Tokyo wasn't the Ali of the 60s. Nobody was...probably ever will be. He was like a boxing Miracle...his only fault was his relative lack of punching power, but he had plenty enough to ridiculously dominate his division.

Even FOTC Ali would have smacked Mike silly. Mike didn't have the heart of a Joe Frazier, he wouldn't have walked through that insane barrage Ali threw in those early rounds like Joe did. Mike never had that kind of motivation (though he was undoubtedly a sensational force of nature in the 80s and proved he did have heart against Ruddock and Lewis).

I give Mike 7 rounds max against both the 60s Champ Ali and FOTC Ali. It would be too much of a barrage for him, and Mike could be psyched (the latter perhaps the most significant component of his demise).

 

Tyson and I are both from Orange County and believe you me, people from Orange County don't fall for no con games like Ali liked to play. The mental wouldn't mess with Tyson like so many people say it would. He'd just take it to Ali and mow over him like a damn lawn.

 

https://milliontrees.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/mount-sutro-forest-greenery.jpg

 

True, Tokyo Douglas was no Ali, but he was incredible that night and more importantly, he wasn't fighting a Tyson that was at 100 percent. Tyson was not properly prepared for that fight, neither physically, nor mentally.

But the thing is the guys Ali beat in the second half of the 60's were not great boxers. The only exceptions are Liston and Patterson.
But Liston was older than stated and took Ali lightly and Patterson had a back injury. So we didn't really get to see how that version of Ali would do against top HWs in their prime.

That's just your opinion and it sounds very silly. Ali's best asset against Mike Tyson is his ability to move and hit, his foot speed.
FOTC Ali still had great hand speed, but he had lost some of his foot speed and wasn't able to move as much.
A stationary Ali would get KO'd by a prime Tyson.

Mike was physically stronger and faster than Frazier and he had better defense and head movement. So it doesn't make sense that he couldn't do what Frazier did.
As for having heart, I reckon Tyson gets way too underrated in this department. Standing there and getting pounded all night long by Douglas takes a lot of heart, I can guarantee you that. In this fantasy matchup we are using the best versions of both boxers.
A 80s Tyson heart and determination was way different than that of the post prison version, who mostly fought for a paycheck and wasn't wiling to go through hell for a win.

Given that it took Douglas (who hit harder than Ali, as you also pointed out) 10 rounds to take out an unprepared Tyson, while landing non stop, how could Ali ever take out a prepared Tyson faster ?!? It just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see any version of Ali being able to KO Tyson. IMO it is possible for Ali to outpoint Tyson, but not to knock him out.

 

stop overrating ali couldnt beat everybody

 

He doesn't beat any version of Ali up to at least 1976 at least.
Ali seemed to aged rapidly then. Tyson gets a decision over a badly beaten Ali then.

 

Fast forward to 1976 Ali, and Mike beats him. Otherwise, ha ha. No.

The guy who struggled with Shavers would have been decisioned by Mike for sure. Prime Mike against that Ali= UD for Mike.

Ali anytime after that point would get beaten worse.

 

Prime for Prime: Ali W via UD, TKO or DQ
Post 60s Ali vs 80s - Early 90s Tyson: Tyson via KO/TKO