How does Usyk do against these past great heavyweights in their primes?

The guy’s a genius.

100%

However, there’s been some terribly ignorant posts made here.

No fighter in history is/was unbeatable. Simply because there’s been too many great fighters, all of which possessed an array of different styles, size and attributes.

 

Yeah, and I give Andy Ruiz credit as well. I would never make a comment like "he is unproven at Heavyweight"

 

Holyfield was also shot and 40+ when he fought Byrd, Sultan. I don't think that says anything about how well Holyfield does against Southpaws, it's more due to the fact that Holyfield was shot.

The Moorer loss was due to Holyfield having health issues, and when he was fit and healthy. Absolutely massacred Moorer in the 2nd fight.

 

I still think Usyk gets a bit overrated at Heavyweight, I still want to see more of him. Before i start jumping on bandwagon saying he beats ATGs, i wasn't overly impressed by Usyk vs Chisora, Bellew.

And whilst the Joshua win was a good win, let's wait and see what happens in a rematch. And see how effective Usyk is against other top Heavywights, because hes only fought one top Heavyweight so far.

 

Usyk is clearly proven at HW, but also unproven in terms of confidently predicting that he’d have been able to have beaten every ATG HW throughout history.

He’s only had 3 pro fights.

 

Don’t expect him to apply any context.

 

I never said he would beat all of them. Now you are making **** up. I would favor him over a lot of atg's though.

 

I never said that you did. I was referring to the opinions of others on here. Others who you have agreed with on some points.

 

154-144 punches landed across 12 rounds is "life and death" for prime Ali yes, as it's commonly repeated that no one today could even touch him. Mildenberger was 6'1 with a 73 inch reach, 195 lbs, had 2 KO defeats, a 31% KO ratio (against small 60's HW's) and had 0 KO's in his last 5. He was a European champion, not even a world level fighter in his day. Mildenberger was levels and levels below undisputed cruiser king, GOAT southpaw heavy and heavyweight world champion Usyk.

Ali showed a particular vulnerability to southpaws even at a young age, with at least 25% of his losses coming against southpaws. When he fought Milde he hadn't fought a southpaw in 6 years and probably had sparred few to none.

It's an extreme and untenable position to believe that the 1966 Ali who fought Mildenberger could be competitive with a prime Usyk, who has studied Ali extensively and has 50+ years of advances on his side on top of everything already mentioned.

 

Woah.

 

The worship of Ali is tiresome and boring as f**k. He got decked by bums and had to rely on cheating to win. Lost 5 fights, he was a very good fighter but please just stop.

 

There are usually excuses when fighters lose. I could say that LHW Moorer's weak chin had further softened by the time of the rematch 3.5+ years later and that's why Holyfield won. Barring the KD's, the rematch was highly competitive and Moorer won his fair share of rounds even with all of Holyfield's KD's. Holyfield was fit enough to go 12 rounds and take a lot of punishment in the first fight, if he had legitimately serious health problems he would have been stopped as he was against Bowe and MW Toney. Holyfield had much more southpaw experience going into the Moorer rematch too, which is a factor that cannot be discounted.

The LHW Byrd loss can be partially discounted because Holyfield had been slipping for a while by that point but Byrd still totally schooled him, outlanding him 5/2 and this was a Holyfield with a lot of good southpaw experience. Holyfield carried on fighting a lot longer after that and had some decent nights, indeed he was coming off a win against Rahman. Any version of Holyfield would have had serious problems with Byrd, who also schooled Tua and gave Vitali a very tricky fight before Vitali retired on his stool.

But most tellingly, Holyfield (according to Steward the most egotistical of all fighters) stated that Usyk would beat him if he was around in this era. Holyfield knew he had huge problems with southpaws (despite being brave enough to fight them). If Usyk is considerably better than LHW's Moorer and Byrd as I believe he is, this strongly suggests to me that any version of Holyfield would get schooled by Usyk.

 

Chisora gave Usyk a tough fight but some factors have to be considered:

Chisora started fast but won nothing or next to nothing after round 4 (Usyk was weathering the storm and pacing himself for 12 early) Chisora has a lot of southpaw experience (fought two southpaws in his three fights prior to Usyk) gives nearly everyone a hard fight (I thought he beat Parker the fight after) and was a 255 lbs behemoth in a small ring with a permissive British referee, against an Usyk who'd never had a meaningful 12 round heavyweight fight.

Bellew's performance is overrated. Usyk essentially did a "Wilder" on him, which was to make Bellew work harder than Usyk was working, minimise damage taken and then snipe him after the damage had accumulated and Bellew had slowed down, which he did in 8.

Other than Fury's win over Wlad and Wilder 2, Usyk's win over AJ in Britain is the best performance we've seen from an active heavyweight. Uysk is the only sub-heavyweight in history to conclusively defeat a reigning SHW champion, in A-side AJ's backyard no less. It's a great win.

Some of Usyk's other professional opponents have relevant good wins or performances against heavyweights: Hunter stopped Bakole, schooled Kuzmin and drew with Povetkin (most thought Hunter deserved the nod in a close fight) and Briedis schooled + KO'd Charr cold, schooled Huck and outhustled Perez. Gassiev may also pick up some decent heavyweight wins if he can overcome his problems as it sounds like he's beaten up quite a few of them in the gym.

 

It's not an excuse it's a known fact Holyfield had health issues in the Moorer fight, aswell as the Bowe fight. Just watch the Holyfield vs Bowe Legendary nights episode. And it will tell you all about Holyfield having issues with his heart. And it should be painfully obvious just watching the fight, that Holyfield was having issues and couldn't summon up any energy. It was nothing to do with "Moorers Southpaw Stance" like your claiming, it was due to Holyfield having no energy in the fight.

The rematch was highly competitive ? he floored Moorer 5 times and had him rocking and reeling in almost every round. If that's your idea of competitive then i don't know what to say.

Holyfield had been a pro for 16 years had been through countless wars, and was 40+ when he fought Byrd. So yes i think we can safely say that loss should be discounted. Holyfield won a technical decision over Rahman due to a headbutt, and had looked god awful in one of the worst trilogies of all time vs John Ruiz coming into Byrd fight. And then went on to lose two one sided fights to Toney and Donald after losing to Byrd, they wern't Southpaws either. So do you think it could be that Holyfield was shot ? more so than your claim of "Holyfield struggling vs Southpaws" as evident by Holyfield's poor performances to Toney and Donald who wern't Southpaws.

Holyfield also claimed Ruiz had the fastest handspeed ever and would of beat him, i'm sure i've heard that before although don't hold me to it. Whether or not Holyfield did or didn't say that is irrelevant, Holyfield is a humble guy and i'm sure he does respect Usyk. The fact is Usyk still has alot of proving to do, and i'm not quite ready to jump on the bandwagon and say Usyk beats all these ATG Heavyweights, based on him fighting one good Heavyweight.

Usyk's resume isn't even as good as Moorer's or Byrd's, so bit too earlier to make that claim. And you keep saying "LHW Moorer" is that to try and diminish Holyfield ? Moorer fought at that weightclass for only 2 years, he was never a natural Light Heavyweight and you know it. If you want to play that game then Holyfield must be "LHW" aswell then. As he fought as a LHW early in his professional career.

 

Put it this way if Lewis, Tyson, or anyone like that faced off vs Chisora he wouldn't make it out of 6th round, Haye dismantled Chisora in just 5 rounds. Chisora is basically a glorified journeyman. And it wasn't an impressive performance from Usyk atleast in my view, no doubt Usyk won but i wasn't overly impressed.

And that's one of Usyk's weaknesses, is that he doesn't really have a concussive power. Which leads me to believe an aggressive power house like Tyson would overwhelm Usyk, but again as i've stated before i'm not ready to put Usyk against ATG Heavyweights. I want to see more evidence of him vs top Heavyweights, because it seems to me people have already made up their mind about Usyk at Heavyweight, which seems crazy to me. With the lack of evidence of Usyk vs top Heavyweight's.