How does wlad do in place of Holmes?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Mar 9, 2017.


  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    How would wlad do if he was champ in the late 70 s in to the 80 s? If he were to meet same opponents as Larry, facing Norton, shavers , cooney, witherspoon, spinks etc. Does he iyo make it undefeated to spinks, lose before then or beat 49 - 0 unlike Larry did? It's a tough era and I have my doubts he could.
     
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    It really depends greatly on weather or not Manny Steward ( or a trainer LIKE Steward ) was with him from the very beginning. Or would he have to fight the first 40 or so bouts of his career under someone comparable to a Fritz Sdunek as he did in reality? In addition would he be able to hold title fights in Europe or would he be forced to fight mostly in the US where judges and referees of that time might be less tolerant of his excessive holding? Would Vitali also be present in this alternate era, enabling him to knock off some of Wlad's less palatable contenders? Would he have access to to performance enhancers ( assuming he ever used them ) ? Heavyweight boxing was a bit more aggressive in those days and you had 15 round fights along with the added pressure of defending more actively. In theory I think Wlad could have beaten ALL of Holmes' opponents and he might very well have. But somehow I don't think it would pan out that way. If we placed him in that time line and in the true progression of his actual career and without definitive answers to some of the above questions, then I think he'd likely pick up a loss somewhere down the line.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    A lot of good points Mr M. Like u said holmes took on those guys in the States so it would have to place him fighting there, same venue s as Larry. I won't bring vit in to it as Larry didn't have that option. As for trainers we'll stick with holmes trainers as well. Try to keep it as close as possible to holmes situation to be fair. But it just boils down to wlad doing the fighting. How would he cope with his style, strength s and weakness against holmes opposition. He would be facing a still dangerous Norton, a young cooney and the rest. I actually think cooney could be a hard one for him as would a witherspoon. I have serious doubts he would get as far as Larry did tbh.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes Tim Witherspoon and Gerry Cooney would be very formidable foes, especially if Wlad approached those fights with the same sort of plan that he did against say Corrie Sanders. Gerry was dangerous in the early rounds with a vicious left, loads of power and plenty of height and reach to connect with.
     
  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    How I see it to. A very dangerous opponent in that time frame. If sanders can do that no doubt cooney could. He would probably beat shavers but once again we have the power of the right hand from earnie that sent holmes crashing. So if he gets wlad with a similar shot..? Holmes has his fair share of easy touches but there are a few guys in the mix that could defeat wlad. Long before he get s to spinks he has his hands full.
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    And a lot of those contenders were young men in their twenties. Wlad fought quite a few men who either took up the sport late or were on the latter end of their careers. In addition many of them were non-aggressive and used a safety first approach. If you haven't seen it, check out his 2008 match with Sultan Ibragimov who fought scared and hesitant for the entire evening. Now compare that to Holmes fights with guys like Spoon, Weaver and Snipes where his opponents were literally trying to knock his block off from start to finish. It was a totally different environment.
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    He might be able to do it, although it'd be quite a big ask.

    Wlad came unstuck in three different ways:

    1) Gassing against a very tough opponent and then getting battered
    2) Getting blitzed by Sanders, who had unusual speed, power and southpaw stance
    3) Getting flummoxed by the movement and sheer size of Tyson Fury

    We have to also bear in mind that he had a distinct style change after fight 42, and that the majority of the fights leading up to the 49-0 would be as his younger self.

    Guys that I see him having problems with:

    Ernie Shavers - Actually I think Wlad would outbox him comfortably. However, Shavers just needs to land one flush, good power shot and Wlad is in deep trouble. So, a puncher's chance.
    Ken Norton - A prime Norton may have given Wlad problems with his unorthodox style. This Norton was a bit old, methinks.
    Weaver - Puncher's chance.
    Cooney - Probably the pick of the bangers thus far. I still favour Klitschko over him, but it's not cut and dried.
    Cobb - I think Cobb may have posed the "puritty challenge" to Wlad. Wlad admitted himself that he was obsessed with KOing everybody in his younger days. He might blow his wad trying to get the toogh as teak Cobb out of there and pay the price
    Witherspoon - Tim was pretty green when he fought Holmes. I favour Wlad over that version
    Spinks - I just don't see Spinks beating Klitschko

    So - I'd personally say that individually Wlad matches up fairly well with Holmes' list. One-on one he should be favoured every time. But as a whole 49-0 list? Much harder.

    I'd give him about the same chances as Holmes, to be honest, with them struggling with different opponents for different reasons.
     
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  8. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He would crush guys like Spinks. The only legit threat would be a tall puncher and thats Cooney. but Wlad is highly more well polished than Cooney and MUCH more ring IQ which Cooney didnt have.Theres actually no one in the 80's that i see that would be harder thana Chris Byrd bc he could punch and was very hard to land clean on.The 80's guys were basic tall jabbers with decent footwork ,but that's not exactly a threat to Wlad.

    Mike Tyson is the only REAL threat to him.
     
  9. heizenberg

    heizenberg Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Something tells me Wlad loses somewhere along the way. I give Norton, Shavers, Weaver, Cooney, Berbick, Witherspoon. Bonecrusher and Williams all a chance to beat Wlad for a number of reasons. I think Norton late in the fight would have a chance with Wlad tiring. Shavers I give a solid punchers chance if he lands on Wlad the way he landed on Holmes the fights done. Weaver I give a good punchers chance if he can take the bout into the later rounds. Cooney would be comparable in size and with his power has a shot. Berbick I don't give a good chance of beating Klitschko but he was strong, awkward and durable and could perhaps wear down Klitschko in the late rounds. Witherspoon had the skills to be competitive with Klitschko and I think could possibly get to him especially late in the fight. Bonecrusher got a punchers chance anytime in the bout. Williams at the time he faced Holmes may have the boxing skills to trouble Klitschko he'd be the only one I give a shot of winning a decision.
     
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  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Tyson would have been a handful, that's for sure :2guns:
     
  11. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    When u look at the holmes era really and compare it to wlad s, there s quite a few guys that I would really give a good chance of beating wlad. Like mentioned weaver, cooney and spoon. He would be severely tested against those guys. Even holmes earlier fight s were no easy touch. Ironically spinks looks the least threat. But of course we have to factor in the age of wlad by then.
     
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    At one point long ago I figured Michael Spinks as having no chance against Wlad. But looking back I'm not so sure, especially if we're talking about an aged version of Klit. Michael was awkward as hell and a master of shooting in and landing quick combos then jutting back out again. he could go 15 rounds, took a pretty good punch and cook crack a little too. I think is 91 second loss to Tyson takes a lot more away from him than it really should.
     
  13. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Most definitely and especially if wlad comes in over confident. A younger wlad beats him but older version.. Not sure.
     
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I know this is a totally different thread topic but on a sidenote, Michael Spinks was a damn great fighter.
     
  15. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    He was. He pulled off a great upset against holmes and of course a great light heavy. A typical great 80 "s fighter. One who took on all comers in his division.